Pandora's box....?

[David Hart]

Concerned about GM crops ?   Here's a twist on that idea. The article starts out with this........

 Researchers say they have created the first ever animal with artificial information in its genetic code.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14492948

 

Nature doesn't need 'our' help. It can make changes all by it's self. Here's another article where nature changes itself, due to 'our' actions....it starts out with the title...

'Super' mouse evolves resistance to most poisons

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14462733

 

[Carey Ma]

@ Eric: copy and paste then just add a but?....i hope you haven't finished, otherwise I'd be disappointed.

@ Kobus: I couldn't have said it better...except for one small little opinion; I term myself an inventor, experimenter, theorist, and artist but I hope no one condemns me as a scientist, for in my eyes they are all whores to the corporate machine; able to betray logic in favor of a new car or parking space. Been there, done that, not any more! Otherwise you are right on the money....kakakaka

[Eric Warwick]

"1. Scientists who cause problems are commonplace, and are typically ego-driven idiots who like to play on the fringes of what they know rather than sticking to what they understand

2.  What we understand does not amount to 1% of ecology.  How can we "solve" problems that we typically created through stupidity to begin with?

3. No problem in food production is as a result of the quality of plants and animals we had at

ur disposal at the beginnning of the industrial age.  How we chose to develop agriculture is at the root of all shortages and failures.  Mono-cropping chemical dependant agriculture is going to be a serious problem with or without GMO in the picture.

4. GMO and cloning developed purely because of greed and a desire to perpetuate the status quo of how we farm.  The companies pushing this technology will not make any money if we all return to sustainable methods..."

All very good points, but...

[Kobus Jooste]

Eric, I have said this before - and I know that you may still be at an age when you typically have a healthy respect for science, but at a multiple graduate scientist I have to firmly disagree with everything that you said.

1. Scientists who cause problems are commonplace, and are typically ego-driven idiots who like to play on the fringes of what they know rather than sticking to what they understand

2.  What we understand does not amount to 1% of ecology.  How can we "solve" problems that we typically created through stupidity to begin with?

3. No problem in food production is as a result of the quality of plants and animals we had at our disposal at the beginnning of the industrial age.  How we chose to develop agriculture is at the root of all shortages and failures.  Mono-cropping chemical dependant agriculture is going to be a serious problem with or without GMO in the picture.

4. GMO and cloning developed purely because of greed and a desire to perpetuate the status quo of how we farm.  The companies pushing this technology will not make any money if we all return to sustainable methods.

5. My philosophy has become quite simple: Occam's Razor or the law of Parsimony:

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor)^[1] often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae, translating to law of parsimony, law of economy or law of succinctness, is a principle that generally recommends, when faced with competing hypotheses that are equal in other respects, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions.^[2]

 

GMO, Cloning and all chemical based farming is based on a heap of new assumptions, many not properly tested.  Sustainable farming is understood, well developed not dependent on any of the factors needed in modern agriculture to succeed and most importantly, has the least potential of catastrophic failure / environmental impact.

[Eric Warwick]

I'm going to say that actually GMO can be safe and effective when given proper testing and not suing people for "property" of the Monsanto Corporation. Take genetic engineering technology out of the hands of corporations and in-to government scientists. GMO's can save the world, but corporations won't.

[Carey Ma]

We are growers! Of course this concerns us and should be publicized so EVERYONE is aware and able to make informed decisions about our lives. I have a thirty year personal vendetta against Monsanto so have tried my best to restrain myself from going on a rampage on this site over this topic because I want to respect Sylvia, and simply promote heirloom and holistic methods instead.

 

I feel it is our responsibility to our fellow aquapons to bring this EVIL to light and should organize to fight these monsters from corrupting legislation further. We SHOULD have a forum and keep this issue active. The way legislation is moving now, we will soon find ourselves squeezed out, the way small farms have been. Now they are trying to stop even the smallest grower from selling their superior products. What do you think will happen when AP becomes noticeable? That's right; rules and regs to eliminate us?

 

PS I sure would appreciate it if someone (you'all) would take a bit of time and e-mail me these and any videos that seem interesting. I tried loading a free VPN but it doesn't seem to work. Anyone have an active VPN they would like to share?

[David Hart]

Well said Kobus.

I too, wasn't sure whether to post it. I guess I saw it as a continuation of a discussion, that took place over a picture of a DVD cover, that Growzay had posted.... about Monsanto. I posted a link, so people could watch the video.

 

In the documentary, they mentioned how the farmers in Mexico were concerned over GM corn. How they fear it crossing with the corn that they've grown for centuries. The corn they grow from seeds,  'they save', does well on it's own.

 If I understand correctly, once it crosses, "that" saved seed is no longer 'heriloom'..... they will 'have to' use monsanto's fertilizers and roundup. Other wise, it just doesn't grow/produce. They should be concerned.

 

I thought cloning was pretty alarming , but that's 'just' reproducing something ( yes, that's a heck of an understatement)

But to be actually writing, manmade code....and creating new life....Wow !

 

Well Kobus, it appears you made the correct choice in not posting this. I guess it's a little too far outside the aquaponics box. But, 'thank you' for making a post and confirming that I may 'unfortunently' be right....that this may be coming out of Pandora's box.

[Kobus Jooste]

I saw this too and was wondering if it should be posted here or not.  This certainly is just about as "last frontier" as things get in terms of messing with organisms.  These scientists are basically "writing code" for structures or characteristics that does not exist in nature.  Apart from the obvious SciFi opportunities, there is the very real opportunity for people to create "new" life.  This raises the concern of cloning and GMO to a whole new level.  The fatalist in me says: "hold on to your stock of heirloom seeds people!".  Two reasons: People who mess with this typically do not know the limits of their abilities.  People who mess with this never seem to think what they are busy with can turn out bad.  Somehow I do not think this knowledge is going to be used to look for a cheap cure for malaria.......................