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Comment by Sheri Schmeckpeper on March 12, 2012 at 10:58pm

Genius, Team JohnJacques! I had originally considered a float valve so when the tank water reduced it would automatically fill. that's how our water cooler works. Then I though a siphon would work, but I already figured out the flaw in that idea (I had a "no duh" moment) & was back to the float. This, though, gives us something more to ponder.

A key consideration is the sf of the sump. The greater the surface area, the less tank fluctuation because of the increased water distribution. You're calculating a sump with the same sf as the beds, right?

I think the fittings connecting the sump & the tank would have to be underground at the magic 6" mark, because water can only seek parity to the bottom of those fittings.

 Bob came across some half-sized (158 gal) IBC totes that would work perfectly for a sump, but not one the size of the growbeds. Must sleep on this one...

Comment by David Schwinghamer on March 12, 2012 at 8:22pm

Im looking for some HELP, Im looking for someone that knows greenhouses and is close to the 85032 zip code that is into easy work and great eats and BEER, let me know. I got to get back into this aquaponics race before the dreaded heat is here.

Comment by John Malone on March 12, 2012 at 1:23pm

Sheri - Jacque and I were pondering the same problem just recently. Standard CHOP rules don't work when your fish tank is the lowest point in the system.  I came up with one idea that would limit dramatic fluctuations in the fish tank.

The idea is the you effectively extend the top of your fish tank, by placing sumps such that the top of the sumps are the same height as the top of your fish tank and have them all plumbed together so that they are all self-leveling.  As you pump from the fish tank the water will flow from the mini-sumps back to the fish tank.  When the grow-beds drain, they'll level in to the fish tank and the other sumps.   

The picture above shows the sumps under the grow beds, but it doesn't have to be that way.  The concept above is designed to be modular, so that for every grow-bed you add the necessary sump/extended-fish tank to accommodate the water fluctuation that will occur when pumping to the grow bed.

Given that a grow bed contains approximately 40% water when full, each mini-sump only needs to be 12" x 40% = 4.8" deep.  Call it 6" and you're happy.

I think of it as a 'distributed' fish tank, where the top of the fish tank is spread over a very large area.  This means that a 5" fluctuation in the 'fish tank' will fill all of the grow beds.   Given that the growbeds are unlikely to all be full at the same time the average fluctuation is going to be 2.5", which I'm sure is acceptable.

The downside is the you're going to have to sink the mini-sumps so that the top of the sumps are at the same height as the top of your fish tank, but that shouldn't be too far, unless you really went crazy digging your fish tank hole.

Note that this is just a concept.  A couple of issues / comments:

• How is the grow bed supported over the sump?
• The connecting pipes can go under ground if necessary.
• You could always go deeper as long as the tops are level.

Feel free to comment or criticize.  This idea was born over a hamburger on the back of a napkin, so could be completely bogus.

Comment by Sheri Schmeckpeper on March 12, 2012 at 10:02am

Our updates—please share your gentle-but-honest critiques. Or forget the gentle part and just be honest!

For our rebuild we're upgrading the design while downsizing the tank to better fit our needs. We've been looking for a 4'x8' grow bed that's over 12" deep to no avail. Everything out there is built for hydroponics & is too shallow.  Anything 12+" deep is very expensive, or a too small in sf.  So for now it looks like we'll be using two IBC beds until we can find the time to weld three beds together to get the size we want. We could also build a form and use a liner, like John is doing, but I think we'll be doing the IBC since we came across some clean totes for $60 each. The final bed will cost about 1/5 of any pre-built solution we've found.

Here's our puzzile:
A 32sf bed will pull about 100 gallons during a flood. That's about 1/3 of our tank volume & we'd like to prevent that fluctuation in the tank. Since our tank is in the ground, we can't have a sump lower than our tank. I'm thinking simple is good. A timed pump from the tank to the bed, which then drains into the sump. The sump will sit at ground level and will drain back into the tank through an overflow siphon. There will be some water fluctuation in the tank, but it shouldn't be too significant. Thoughts?

Comment by Sheri Schmeckpeper on March 12, 2012 at 9:33am

Wow, gone for a week and I have a lot of catch up reading to do.

Thanks for the links to the overflow siphon, Bob. I'm learning a lot about the many types of siphons.

John, your making great progress, and Jacques, your coop is adorable!

David, we use both plastic and shade for our greenhouse.  It's covered in 6mil UV plastic, which is doing well and going on its 2^nd summer. As the weather warms (about now) we put on a shade cloth over the top of the greenhouse. Then the weather warms even more, we add a tarp for full shade. So what you use depends on what you want to gain. The plastic allows you to better control the environment, but doesn't protect you from the blazing sun. 
Re: cooling, depending on your application, it might be redundant to have a cooler along with misters & fans because they misters/fans are a form of a water cooler. Also, the fans can change the direction of the spray from the misters, but it all depends on your overall design. It sounds like you're planning a great greenhouse!

As for your fish, your new ones are about 6 wks old. We now have two mamas holding eggs. They should start releasing within a week, and those will make your little ones look really big! :)

Yes, thanks to Rachel for helping with the transportation! It was great meeting Rachel F2F, and we've been learning a lot about quail eggs since the visit!

Nice article on solar, Holly.  We want our greenhouse fully off the grid eventually. Most installations are hooked into the grid and produce energy that is sold to the providers at wholesale, and what is used is purchased back at retail. So to have zero energy payments you have to produce more than you use. We have friends who just added enough solar to cover all their costs, and they have a LOT of panels.

Dave, we picked up a cleaner for our jeep windows from a 4x drive shop. It's PlastX by Meguiars. They say it cleans, removes fine scratches, and protects. It seems to be doing OK so far.

Comment by Kellen Weissenbach on March 12, 2012 at 1:06am

Two inch ABS shower drains work pretty well as bulkhead fittings for EPDM as well.  They cost about 5 bucks at the hardware store.  Just pull off the strainer/cover and you have a "slip through" gasket style bulkhead (similar to a uniseal), but with the structural support and sealing method of a traditional bulkhead fitting.

Comment by Bob Campbell on March 12, 2012 at 12:46am

John Malone said "I'll also probably have to take up the liner to driil the hole in the bottom of the grow bed and one in the side for an overflow pipe.
Hmmmm, two steps forward, one step back. Situation normal."

Definitely do not try to drill through the liner.  It will wrap up on the bit.

Yes if you have some other sturdy material with a smooth surface I suppose it too will work.

Comment by John Malone on March 11, 2012 at 9:10pm

Bob - I like the way you did your bulkhead connections. I was wondering if any stiff plastic would do the job rather than expensive lexan? Looks like I've got some experimenting to do to find out. I've got a couple of straight sided kitty-litter buckets that would drop the job nicely.
Once the grow bed is full of rocks the bulkhead assembly shouldn't move around too much, particularly if the assembly is a firm fit through the hole in the bottom of the grow bed.
I've been looking at my grow bed and am thinking that it is too high. I'll probably remove one level of concrete blocks and drop the whole bed by 8". That would give me that much more vertical space when I come to put a greenhouse over the top.
I'll also probably have to take up the liner to driil the hole in the bottom of the grow bed and one in the side for an overflow pipe.
Hmmmm, two steps forward, one step back. Situation normal.

Comment by Bob Campbell on March 11, 2012 at 10:27am

Dave Story said "I am still leaning. I enjoy reading and trying things I see on here. I tried Murray's Bell Siphon, I could not get it to work best for me.. But I saw, a demonstration with it last week... it worked great, but I still like mine more..."

Please describe or bell siphon.  What makes yours different?

Comment by Dave & Yvonne Story on March 11, 2012 at 8:54am

The lexan lin worked fine.

That brings up another question..

I have a plastic windscreen on my motorcycle. On my 3rd because of sun and dust.. how can I clean it to see thru it?

Now Back to AP

I am still leaning. I enjoy reading and trying things I see on here. I tried Murray's Bell Siphon, I could not get it to work best for me.. But I saw, a demonstration with it last week... it worked great, but I still like mine more...

thank you to all of us who share an pay it forward.

Dave 

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