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Comment by Sheri Schmeckpeper on July 16, 2012 at 10:32pm

I just pour it on the ground & it doesn't affect anything visually. I just got this weird & funny image of thousands of people all over the place playing with the chemicals, so I had to ask. :)

Comment by Jim Troyer on July 16, 2012 at 9:06pm

@ Larry -- you can generally get nylon screws at ace hardware, if not there, try an electrical supply house

@ Sheri everything is natural, don't worry about it.  Besides my kit comes in 1.25 ounce bottles, that volume is much too low for concern.

Comment by David Schwinghamer on July 16, 2012 at 6:17pm

Just dump the used chemicals down the toilet, dirty environment there anyway.

Comment by Sheri Schmeckpeper on July 16, 2012 at 5:26pm

We had another sudden drop in PH! We've been cutting back on acid because of the change in our tap water, so I've been topping off with 7.4 PH - straight tap water. The water in the system has been lowering pretty quickly, and has been in the mid-6 range for a couple weeks. Today it was at 6.0! I didn't think I'd ever see that using untreated tap water!

We now have the entire old system removed from the greenhouse, and two 50gal fry tanks feeding 10 duckweed trays. We also have a 2x4 hydro tray set up to the main system. We have about 28sf of duckweed now. Well, duckweed grow space, anyway. It'll take a few days for it to fully populate the trays.

@Jacques, if the readings are between 80 & 160, it's probably not the problem. I'd try to get them down further anyway. The added growbed will be the ultimate solution, naturally, but until the... 

It will be interesting to see if the deaths stop with the bucket gone. When you're dealing with fish deaths, the chlorine in tap water is a relatively small concern. Sometimes it's better for them to deal with the chlorine than the other poisons in the water.

@Larry, if you're concerned about the bolts, couldn't you just coat them with silicone?

@CG Larry, I'm glad you're relaxing on the testing. :) The rain water might cause an increase in your nitrate readings.

Random Question: Does anyone know what the testing chemicals are? What are we doing to the environment when we dump all these chemicals out? (Somehow I think I know who will respond to this one!)

Comment by Jeremy K on July 16, 2012 at 2:14pm

How do you know when it is time to pick a watermelon? I have 6 of them and one is larger then my head, and I like to think I have a large head

Comment by Bob Campbell on July 16, 2012 at 2:13pm

@Larry -

There are over 1500 types of stainless steel. Each having it’s own unique quality. In our applications we are manly concerned with the non-corrosive qualities of stainless steel.   304 or 316l stainless steel are very common and are non corrosive. The letter “l” designates a low level of carbon.

One of the most often asked questions is “does stainless steel contain iron, and why is it not magnetic?” The answer is yes. Stainless steel has an iron content of 58% - 69%. The magnetic permeability of the Alloys 316 and 317L in the annealed condition is generally less than 1.02 at 200 H (oersteds). It is essentially not magnetic because the crystalline properties of the alloy change the temperature at which the steel ceases to be magnetic. This temperature is called the Curie point. For example iron looses it ferromagnetic quality above 768°C. 300 series stainless steel is an alloy referred to as gamma phase iron or austenite stainless steel. There are however some stainless steels that are magnetic. These are referred to as martensite stainless steel.

Austenite stainless steel locks the iron into the crystalline structure of the alloy so that it will not corrode. When nickel or manganese is added, the austine structure of iron is stabilized and the crystalline structure binds the iron in the alloy and does not allow it to oxidize.

The 300 series of stainless steel contains a maximum of 0.15% carbon, a minimum of 16% chromium and enough nickel and/or manganese to retain an austenitic structure. The chromium forms an extremely thin, less than 0.0000001-inch thick, protective film of chromium oxide, which prevents further corrosion.

Passivation is a cleaning process, which provides this thin protective film. Passivation is not generally a process to be undertaken by laymen. It involves very dangerous chemicals.

The ASTM A380 describes passivation as "the removal of exogenous iron or iron compounds from the surface of stainless steel by means of a chemical dissolution, most typically by a treatment with an acid solution that will remove the surface contamination, but will not significantly affect the stainless steel itself." Further more the ASTM A380 goes on to say "the chemical treatment of stainless steel with a mild oxidant, such as a nitric acid solution, for the purpose of enhancing the spontaneous formation of the protective passive film."

The use of grinding wheels, sanding materials or wire brushes made of iron, iron oxide, steel, or zinc may contaminate the stainless-steel surface. Even the use of a grinding wheel that was previously used on other metals can cause contamination. 

When Stainless Steel is used in Aquaponics I seriously doubt that this level of contamination would be of any concern. But if you are using it for electrolysis it may very well be important.

Comment by Larry in Casa Grande on July 16, 2012 at 12:14pm

Yea! The last couple of days I noticed the fish started eating again.

Guys I looked for nylon screws first and could not find them locally. The bolts are above any water levels, and I have checked them for moisture beads over the last day or two. (A little hard to tell with all the rain I have been getting)  :-) and they seem pretty dry other than when it's raining. Thank you Vlad, I will check on their grade but probably leave them for now. Until I can order in some nylon bolts. Things are a little harder to come by in the small town environment.

Sherri: I have given up testing my water 4 to 6 times a day for now. :-) I love the rain, but my tanks are just overflowing. I will test again tonight, and do yet another water change if needed.

I wonder how my Goldfish and other fish survived all those past decades in my galvanized stock tanks. They probably had such a heavy coating of slime and algae, the galvanizing could not get through :-) Those hoses and cows made an awful mess in those things. I think the alfalfa hay falling from their mouths created a rich bio media. I feel a little bad for the fish now though. I had no Idea.

I do notice that since I have been paying attention to the water the Goldfish colors seem much brighter!

Comment by Jacques L. on July 16, 2012 at 11:07am

@Sheri

After taking my readings, the Nitrates were the only thing that I thought to be cause for concern. I did to a top off with 35 gallons yesterday and plan to do so again tomorrow for good measure.

The metal handle is the only thing I could spot that might have tainted the water causing the die-off. The progression had been steady for over a week and was averaging 2 fish a day (mainly the biggest fish).

The water is clear. But like you said, I'll be adding in more water come tomorrow as I'd like to give the buckets 48 hours to degas in the sunlight.

As for the Nitrate reading 80, it did not hit the marker for 160, so best guess its somewhere in between.

I'll be stopping in tonight to do another check.. keeping my fingers crossed.

Comment by Bob Campbell on July 16, 2012 at 10:55am

For about six weeks my fish have not been eating as aggressively as they used to. 
They have been showing signs of breeding, and I attributed this to the loss of appetite.

But it was about the same time I added iron chelate. 
The iron made the water quite brown, and I also observed some algae on the walls of the tank, and in the water which I attributed to warmer weather. 
So the cloudy water did not concern me, and my assumption remains that iron chelate is not harmful to the fish, but it's definitely not to be dismissed.   
The Iron Chelate level has dropped from 0.5 ppm to 0.1 ppm over the past three weeks.  Today I bumped that up again with 60ml of Dr.Iron.

Before the fish began to loose their appetite I began to allow the salt levels to become depleted in an effort to see what affect if any a 0.15% salt level has on plants.
I let the salt level drop to zero over the course of a couple months.   That experiment was trashed when a leak developed in my grow bed, and I had to remove all the media and plants. 
The bacteria took a small hit but I was able to preserve, and restore the bacteria within a few days by using a small wet/dry bio filter.
Two days ago I began to bring the salt levels back up since I have very few plants left in the grow bed to experiment with.  I'm now using this system for starting seeds and growing outdoors in my other system.

After bringing the salt up to only 0.9% the water cleared the fish began to eat better.
I'll continue to watch the fish to see if their appetite continues to improve, but since I have several variables going on I'm still trying to figure out what it is that caused the loss of appetite.   It might be simply salt levels, but I feel that there is more to it than that.  Maybe there was enough algae in the tank to keep them satisfied. I'm pretty sure they are also eating their young even though I have tried to provide a safe areas for the fry to escape into.

 

I added FE2 today, so I should be able to tell if this is the cause or not.

Comment by Jim Troyer on July 16, 2012 at 10:52am

@ larry et al;    They use copper sulfate to kill roots in sewer lines, don't add copper to your system in any way, shape or form.

Also, if the fish are dying because of toxic exposure to metals, should those fish still be okay for the frying pan?  Just asking because I don't know...

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