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Comment by Bob Wohl on November 26, 2013 at 2:43pm

Hey Matt, I was hoping to keep this on the least amount of build time and least amount of real estate used. If you have one hose out and one hose in, aren't you using the same amount of pressure to flow water through the heating tubes?

Comment by John Malone on November 26, 2013 at 11:18am

@Bob

Ahhh - the perils of the solar water heater.   I had the same idea as you and did exactly as you've done, with, not surprisingly, exactly the same results.

I finally came to the conclusion that it's not a good idea to try and push water through a long single piece of pipe.  You have to go parallel. Each length of pipe that you put in parallel reduces the pressure required to push water through the system, whereas extra length on a single pipe increases the pressure required.

I didn't want to have another high-cost, high wattage pump, and ended up with a cheap unit from Harbor Freight. There's lots of much better pumps out there, but I was trying to build it for as low a cost as possible.  $15 at 16 watts is good for me. 

Note that, within reason, the more water you can put through the solar panel the more efficient it will be.  Heating up 500 gallons 1F doesn't take as much energy as heating 100 gallons 5F.    But remember that if you run a large pump you are using extra energy, so there's a balance point somewhere.

Here's how I ended up doing it:

and Jim Troyer's layout:

Comment by Bob Wohl on November 26, 2013 at 10:52am

Hi All!

I built a small solar heater and I'm looking for a cheap pump for it. I'm using 100' of 1/2" poly tubing in the usual coiled fashion. My current pumps, strongest being a 7' max fountain pump, are not strong enough to push the water through. Any ideas on a decent + cheap pump for this?

Comment by Robert Rowe on November 26, 2013 at 8:26am

I found the documentation Under ETFE Google has it posted both as ETFE and EFTE. Anyway I got Duponts specs. Sounds good. I don't have a chemical backgroung. There are several sub-types and gauges. Have you settled on one?

In the past I have use plastic films on structures using a tongue and groove retention. Do you think this would work with this product, since they say it is subject to puncturing.

Comment by Kris Pauly on November 26, 2013 at 6:44am

@ Jim - Thanks.. This one is 12ft by 16 ft.  my next unit will be 12 X 8 then a monster 12 by 32.  I started with the 12 X 16 because it measures out 198 sq ft so it was not required to permit it here in yavapai county. 

@ Robert - I will be covering the greenhouse with EFTE film.  ASU just retrofitted a bunch of their greenhouses with it, amazing material - 25 year life expectancy. 

 

I used 100ft of the 1/2 inch black irrigation tubing in a box and heated a 10,000 gallon above ground pool a few summers ago.  I will be adding a similar system to help heat the greenhouse during the winter, and adding a geo thermal cooling system to help cool the room this summer.  I will add images as we go.

Comment by Jim Troyer on November 26, 2013 at 1:12am

@ Kim:

John has good points about RO wasting water and your pH concerns. 

The biggest reason for me to avoid RO in AP is the removal of all minerals from the water.  Your plants and fish need those minerals to grow into healthy plants and animals.

My advice to you Kim:  go to page 474 of this thread and read all the posts up to now.  When I first became a member, I read all 130 existing pages...  You will know almost everything when you are finished... it will only take a few days and you will have a great understanding and most importantly it will quench that thirst for knowledge. 

I use Star Milling as well

Comment by John Malone on November 25, 2013 at 10:35pm

@Kim re pH

Reverse Osmosis (RO) water is a no-no for AP in my opinion, mostly due to the amount of water it wastes in the filtering process.

I can't talk to rainwater, but I'd give it a try if I had it.

Phoenix system water has a high pH, but this isn't all bad seeing as an established AP system trends down anyway.  Topping up with high pH water offsets that trend and keeps your AP pH quite stable.

I've found that I occasionally have to adjust my system with muriatic (pool) acid to bring the pH down to the level I like (6.8) but it's not a big deal.

I think you might be over-thinking this a bit.  pH is one part of the system that you need to keep an eye on, but it's not so critical that you need to track it on a daily basis and run for the adjusters ever time it moves 0.1 in any direction.

Comment by John Malone on November 25, 2013 at 10:29pm

@ Bayy Quest

I buy my tilapia feed from The Western Ranchman (click here). They stock or will order in the Star Milling product lines.  Last time I was there they had tilapia feed in stock.  The time before I had to order it in.   They're good people

Star Milling Aquaculture Fish Brochure

Star Milling products are readily available at farm and stock suppliers.  If The Western Ranchman isn't close enough for you try finding a store closer using the Store Locator on the Star Milling website (click here).

I paid about $32 for a 50 lb bag of food, which lasts quite a while for me. I've got 30+ 1.5lb tilapia in my system.

Comment by Kim Romen on November 25, 2013 at 10:27pm

@ Jim, forgot to answer about the ammonia.  i'll check tomorrow but a week ago or so was pretty low. 

Comment by Kim Romen on November 25, 2013 at 9:28pm

I saw a youtube video from brightagrotech about ph.  said ph will come down by itself with time and when someone is struggling with ph they are struggling with carbonates.  said that topping off water with rainwater or RO water is the most important thing u can do.  we were thinking of changing out drinking water filter to RO anyway, so now may be the time.  anyone have these results with using RO water or rainwater?  this is probably no news to anyone here, but I'd like to hear what some Arizonians have to say.  thx!

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