Colloidal Silver

[Jon Parr]

So, a highjacked water catchment thread here http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/rainwater-coll...

spawned a discussion of Colloidal Silver, and quite rare and hard to believe, I have no strong opinion for nor against. 

Convince me, please.

On the Nay front, medical science says that silver is not needed in diet, ineffective at treating ailments or preventing, and quite possibly may be toxic. 

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver

On the Yay front, many health nuts I know swear by it's benefit.

[Jim Fisk]

Eric, I do appreciate your honesty. And I stand by mine. You have a great deal to learn and this thread should stand as many have already had good results with controlling anaerobes in their aquatic systems using cs despite your "academic proof" to the contrary and some of us take our AP systems and success seriously. 3 years and still no serious system? All theory and no action? Please bring your theories to life and share what you actually observe to be real. Folks on here are always open to real observations and successes. We are enjoying meal after meal of trout and veggies of all kinds and our phase 2 is under way as we approach 2500 gal and new challenges we will share with you as well. CS is just one of many tools we have used to get here. Stay sharp, stay the course and get building. Time to take action and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Perhaps when we get phase 2 up and running you could come visit as you are not that far away. Believe me we have more in common than not.

[TCLynx]

Perhaps it would be helpful if those who have used CS for their systems could share with others,

HOW you used it. 

What product was used.

what concentration

how often

how applied

Observations of the system/fish health before it's used

Observation of system/fish health after and during it's use

[Eric Warwick]

In that case, since it's an antibiotic--Ag is at least--it could be used as a topical antibiotic for sick fish. Just be aware that over-usage can lead to worse strains of pathogens--i.e. super bugs--due to the "purell effect." Jim,  we must have tons in common if we're even on this forum. Fish? Plants? Fish AND Plants?! That'd send so many HOAs into paranoid fits! "3 years and no action..." well, I am a teenager.  I had a system for one year through my school. It was problem-based-learning--or something--but all I saw was aquaponics. The Tilapia were unbelievably amazing. Since then I've built several hydroponic systems, but no aquaponic ones. I've finalized my plans now--thanks to a lighting experiment with a hydroponics system. So excited!

[Jim Fisk]

Hey TC, keep in mind that there are no known side effects to real cs. I am not speaking of non stable undetermined strength home made cs in name only. When you see the amount of ag that forms at the bottom of a home made batch, common sense SHOULD tell you there is a potential for unexpected consequences like turning ag blue. Derived from the molecular scrapings off of silverware one could certainly expect "blue bloods" regardless of the benefits.

Now given lab controlled nearly perfect colloid structure and stable there really are no side effects, just positive results. Therefore I am not concerned with micro dosing. Any amount in my opinion can only help the aerobes in their attempts to take over the system. Personally I introduced 1 oz of my lab produced cs each week for three weeks into a 2000 gal system. I do not have time or funding to have separated tanks as control groups as I am not presently involved in proving anything to others as I have over 20 years of confidence in cs and know full well what it is capable of. My ONLY original question that started all this on another thread (Jon kindly moved it over here) was "is it safe for fish?"

In my case those 3 weeks marked the end of my fish deaths and my only regret is that I was too stupid to have thought of cs earlier. The day I thought of it was the day I asked the question here on our forum "does anyone use cs in their system?" and the answer was a clear NO. So I Googled it in relation to fish and was pleasantly surprised to find that MANY others had thought of it in regards to their aquariums and fish ponds and were blown away by the results. That answered my second question which was could cs be toxic to fish? and again the resounding answer was "not in the least."

That is all I needed to know and I took it from there. There is plenty of dosing info on the web for anyone interested in giving their AP system a serious leg up.

This Saturday we put another 50+ trout fingerlings into IBC 330gal trout tank one. Not a single loss so far so the system is so stable now that I have to admit the test kit is getting rather dusty as I have not tested now in 5 or 6 mos. That first year the system is running is just a time period one must wade through I am afraid and, once all is balanced, everything just seems to plug along. No surprises. Thank you God, as the early fish deaths were quite alarming not to mention discouraging.

Hey Eric, I remember 16 quite well. A frustrating time in anyone's life. Also if you think HOAs are bad try living in a "Historic District". Learned that one the hard way in Dennis on Cape Cod and never again. Had to take them to court and I won but a lousy way to live. Give me the freedom of our mountain farming community here in TN any day. If I were you I would start making a living on line NOW while you are in school and have the freedom to live where YOU want rather than be a slave to the job market. GET OUT OF THE SUBURBS ASAP. I wouldn't trade the times when I was 16 for these times on a bet. This is not your Pappy's world. None the less I started working for myself at about age 14 and had my furniture and wood carvings in some of the best local galleries all thru the latter half of HS and through college. I still sell my up to 16 foot long panorama photos in bars and restaurants in Maine and get a nice check now and then. If we had had the global market called the internet back then, that is where I would have been. I am still selling plans of items I built back in the 60's but now they are in pdf format and sold online. Anything you do can turn into cash. I have sold over 6000.00 worth of AP bell siphons in the last 6 months alone among so many other things. An AP system costs money but once you have success you can have it pay for itself and then some. A big advantage over fellow local farmers is the year round production of an AP GH while the competition is seasonal. Local restaurants really like the non seasonal nature of AP. Just some thoughts. You will do well whatever you choose but keep freedom in mind as you pursue your career.

Oh and there is NO "Purell effect" with cs. You are making assumptions that are not the case. It is not a drug. No bug survives plain old bleach either, good or bad, and there is no Purell effect there either. CS however does not harm the vast majority of aerobes, unlike bleach, just the anaerobes. I'll leave the science of "why" to you. Don't be too quick to discard thousands of years of "anecdotal" records.

[TCLynx]

So 1 oz a week with your lab grade CS in a system with 2000 gallons of water.

Fish were trout and they were dieing before the dosing.  (how many and what rate were you loosing them, were there visible symptoms to indicate what was killing them?)

Dosed that 1 oz for 3 weeks

and after, I assume there have been no more fish deaths?

Were there any other changes that might have taken place during that time that might have also contributed to the outcome?

Do you have any info on that CS (like strength and where to get that same stuff?)

(hint, I'm trying to get some of this info consolidated into one spot so people don't have to go reading through 5+ pages of often not all that related banter and arguing to find it.)

People should not take this as a guarantee of any kind but I know many of us here are often looking for possible solutions when the "authorities" don't have anything they will guarantee either and the official methods would be something like using antibiotic impregnated feed which would 1- likely not be effective for fish that are off their feed due to illness and 2- antibiotics also kill good bacteria and therefore would be bad for the bio-filters.

[Keith Rowan]

so jim.. i try to make a point, that doesn't agree with you and i'm pals with nancy pelosi?

what, are you ted cruz's b!tch?  attack me because i don't agree with you instead of providing some real scientific proof.. oh, i forgot, you only listen to real scientest (republican anti science, anti evolution quacks)

see how well the ad hominem attacks work? i really made my point! (sarcasm!)

silver is an antiseptic, not an antibiotic

can you provide any independent verification that royals were called blue bloods due to chronic silver exposure?

i'm just looking for verifiable information, which you are unable to provide..(that means not anecdotal evidence)

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad...

[Jim Fisk]

The trout were fairly recent to the system but I was losing a couple per week. However I was loosing about 4-5 catfish and about 2 bluegills per week and I am down to the one cat that made it thru that period down from about 40. He is still fine.

Bio-Alternatives is the source and the conc. is 10 ppm and not all cs is equal so I can only vouch for BA's as I have used theirs for at least 12 - 15 yrs. Personally I would NOT trust any standard antibiotics in my system. The side effects of even penicillin on me were horrendous in my personal experience but it did save me from potentially dieing from pneumonia. Had never even heard of cs back then.

[B. H.]

Jim, are you interested in making CS yourelf at home?

[B. H.]

 

Man, I sure wish I were 16 again ...... and knew everything.

 

Antiseptics (from Greek ἀντί: anti, '"against"^[1] + σηπτικός: sēptikos, "putrefactive"^[2]) are antimicrobial substances that are applied to living tissue/skin to reduce the possibility of infection, sepsis, or putrefaction. Antiseptics are generally distinguished from antibiotics by the latter's ability to be transported through the lymphatic system to destroy bacteria within the body, and from disinfectants, which destroy microorganisms found on non-living objects. 

Some antiseptics are true germicides, capable of destroying microbes (bacteriocidal), while others are bacteriostatic and only prevent or inhibit their growth.

Antibacterials are antiseptics that have the proven ability to act against bacteria. Microbicides which destroy virus particles are called viricides or antivirals.

 

CS can and does enter and pass through the blood stream all the way down to the capillaries.  So, from the supplied definition, CS can be considered 1) antiseptic - when applied externally, 2) antibiotic - when taken internally,  3) disinfectant - when used to treat a fungal infection when sprayed on leaves of a plant. All 3 applications/uses I have done personally with great success. 

[George]

here's one for you, Eric

http://youtu.be/1PT90dAA49Q

Eric Warwick said:

Last thing: "science is more than just a body of knowledge [and it is]--it's a way of thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe."--Carl Sagan. 

[Eric Warwick]

 Where do you think I got the quote from? 

George said:

here's one for you, Eric

http://youtu.be/1PT90dAA49Q

Eric Warwick said:

Last thing: "science is more than just a body of knowledge [and it is]--it's a way of thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe."--Carl Sagan. 

[Jim Fisk]

I would certainly like to know what method you are using. I consider my 27v dc unit for emergency only as I do get some silver precipitate. A more stable method would be great if it does not entail the big $ that a good generator costs.

B. H. said:

Jim, are you interested in making CS yourelf at home?