Do you Uberman?

[Jon Parr]

Uberman is name for a Polyphasic Sleep Cycle, where one sleeps for 15 minutes every 4 hours.  

Dymaxion sleep is where on sleeps 30 minutes every 6 hours.

Everyman is a core nap of 2-4 hours, with 2-4 naps throughout the day

Permalink Reply by Carey Ma 3 hours ago

Threadjackers united! A force of its own...hehe...sorry, sorry, I can't help myself...

I've only had two paying jobs in my life and hope never to have one again. I started sleeping only four hours a night while I was in collage some thirty years ago. I did burn out about a decade ago but am back to four to six hours a night with naps during the day, whenever feel tired. There is always so much to do and learn, twenty four hours is just not enough. I use to wish I didn't need sleep. Data on Star-Trek is so lucky.

[Jon Parr]

So Vlad, Carey, and hopefully some others that join in, I am interested in talking about the polyphasic sleep thing.  I have tried to get my friends and family to give it a shot.My wife tried it for one night, no other takers.  I even thought of opening an Uberman Cafe here in town with sleeping cots and common areas where folks who want to give it a try can get help keeping schedule during the Zombie phase of the first week.  

[Nate Storey]

I'm interested in this polyphasic sleep thing. . . I typically sleep a solid 5-10 hrs a night, depending on what I can afford, but an extra 3-8 hours would be nice.   When I lived in the hills during the winters, I would sleep from 9-12, then get up, stoke the stoves, read, wander around outside, and then go back to bed for another couple hours.  It was like clockwork, and reduced my overall sleep needs significantly- and I felt good.  Now that I'm in town on a schedule it's different-

I'm interested in Vlad's problem solving/creative thinking dreams.  I would sure like to figure out how to do that.  I spend at least several hours a day just sitting, thinking, using a lot of spatial reasoning- trying to figure out problems to puzzles- if I could do that while dreaming. . . .oh man I could get stuff done.

[Jon Parr]

I'm anxious for Vlad to elaborate there, too.  I've experienced it, I think it's called "lucid dreaming". For me it happens at the end of REM in a 15 minute nap.  I am still dreaming, but also realize that I am dreaming, where I am, and if I choose, I can wake at that point.  If I don't want to rouse, I can interact with the dream already in progress, control to some extent where it heads.  I wouldn't say I've done any problem solving, but I've "experienced" some crazy stuff.

I first learned of polyphasic sleep in high school, after reading a reference (Discover Mag, I think) that Leonardo DaVince did the 15 minutes every 4 hrs, and a college group decided to see if it were possible/practical.  Of the 20 volunteers, 19 made it through and kept it as a lifestyle (if my memory serves me).  I tried that same night, and no way possible for me then.  I tried again shortly after I got married, again no way, couldn't make it through a single night.  Then I started trying again a couple years ago.  I have almost made it through a few times, but not ever actually transitioned.  

True Uberman sleep is really difficult.  Every time I opt to try it again it is because I'm overwhelmed with my job, hobbies, kids, life, and I beg for more hours in the day to experience everything.  This is exactly the wrong time to try and Uberman.  It works for a day, a night, and a day, sometimes even the next night, but then comes crashing down.  My work and my play is very physically demanding, and after 48 hours of wake time, usually 44 hours of it is hard work, and I'm freakin exhausted.  The right time to try would be a two week period when you had a bunch of cerebral projects that you WANT to do, without work to get in the way, or appointments that can't wait.  I haven't had that window in the two years I've been trying it.  And one more warning; you will be a zombie for 7-10 days, totally worthless, unreliable, and even your thoughts will be disjointed and miserable. Why do it?  The reward after 2 weeks of torture is apparently a feeling like superman, full of energy, fresh mind and spirit, never a lag in clarity.  And your honey-do list disappears.

Here is a good read:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep/

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Great idea Jon...I've only got a minute now, so just a quick comment...Something I've tried before (and anybody with some HID growlights (MH shown to work best...blue light), or a grow room can do this too. Btw...this is not fringe, it's been done since 1938 onwards...recently though used in Spacecraft design and for pilots...

You can re-set your own circadian rhythms (24 hour biological clock)  by exposure to intense light. About 10,000 lux outta do it, to do things like advance or delay your 'normal' sleep timing. Keep in mind that these environmental "re-set" cues follow a phase response curve...

I believe this can be used in combination with polyphasic sleep to come up with a pattern that best suits you as an individual in your particular set and setting...

I think you guys get the picture, but basically you can use the re-set function to advance or delay (how ever far) to best fit when you want/need your core sleep to take place (according to society-time and whatever obligations there you need to tend to), and hence to an extent, when you'll 'nap'...

Jon Parr said:

So Vlad, Carey, and hopefully some others that join in, I am interested in talking about the polyphasic sleep thing.  I have tried to get my friends and family to give it a shot.My wife tried it for one night, no other takers.  I even thought of opening an Uberman Cafe here in town with sleeping cots and common areas where folks who want to give it a try can get help keeping schedule during the Zombie phase of the first week.  

[Jon Parr]

Cool Vlad. Not really a stretch at all, I already spend a good deal of time in the grow room. May as well sleep in there as well!

Another caution for any serious about trying to Uberman. You, or at least n my case, must swear off all stimulants and depressants. No caffeine, alcohol, MJ, or many meds and foods. I don't drink a lot, and I'm not addicted to anything, so this was no big deal. The trouble for me was the absent-minded intake of caffeine. For instance, I love iced tea, and it is often second nature to have a glass (or 5 glasses) of iced tea with lunch on a nice day, or coke, coffee, etc. Good luck trying to take a nap after that. Conversely, a cocktail and a steak dinner puts me in an 8 hr coma. I understand that you can indulge in some modest pleasures after two weeks of successful uberman. By then you simply get tired and need to sleep every 4 hrs, and even a drinking binge only throws you off by a couple o cycles.

It is amazing how much of our lives we sleep or lounge. Didn't have any idea until I started this craziness. Brings newfound respect for the quiet and loneliness of the wee hours, too.

[TCLynx]

I just had to send this link to my Brother.  He has never been good at keeping to a sleep schedule that works well with society.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Hmm...So I've been trying to figure out how to "elaborate" on some of this without being all long-winded about it, but it's all so interconnected (polyphase, lucid dreaming) that there's no good place to start, or quick way to explain things.So I'll just pick a spot to start from...

First, I think that after my little NDE one of the the conclusions that I came to was that this gift we've been given (we'll call it Life) isn't made up of just things that we experience from the time we wake up, until the time that we go to sleep. Something very important is happening in our minds while our bodies are resting, otherwise Nature would not have made dreaming a biological necessity, like eating or going to the bathroom. I'm not talking about the 'rest' that takes place, but the just rather the dreaming portion. Why is an emotion, or a thought, or something that we experience while dreaming, less real or of less value than one that we have while awake? I know that polyphasic sleep is a good way to gain more 'awake' time, which is great, but I don't think I'd ever want to cut out dreaming entirely. It would be like throwing out all your screwdrivers and replacing them with just more hammers....

I remember reading somewhere about studies that supposedly showed that animals that engage in lots of REM sleep while in the womb are generally born 'ready' for the world (calves, foals). Their eyes, ears work right away...they are able to stand on there feet within minutes, walk, run etc...While animals (like puppy dogs, kittens, and humans) who are born rather helpless and much less well developed to get on in the world around them (can't walk, can't see etc...) do not engage in REM (or very little) sleep while they are in the womb. It would be logical to then wonder why that is? It is not far fetched to presume that those better prepared animals may have 'practiced' those skill sets while dreaming in utero. 

Now, it would certainly prove interesting to try and hone this (lucid dreaming) as one would any other skill. (And not just experience dreaming the way the ball experiences a pin-ball machine). 

The cool thing to me about polyphasic sleep, is it allows you to cut out a lot of that unnecessary non-REM sleep, the truly 'wasteful' portion of your 'sleepy-time'. This is great in terms of increasing the 'awake-time' we have been conditioned to value, but this set-up to me is only half complete. Like having a TV where the picture works, but not the sound. Not totally useless, but not being utilized to potential either. This is where controlled lucid dreaming comes in.

As Jon noted, you are dreaming, yet fully engaged and conscious (or just partially at first). You can choose what to do and how to do it...turn left, or turn right. At first you may just choose to do things that have prior association with dreaming like 'remembering' that you can fly now etc...You'll need to learn how to move without waking up, how to look at things without looking at them directly, again so as not to wake up. It's a bit of a balancing act and it takes a long friggin' time to learn to induce (or maybe I'm just slow) and isn't always consistently able to be done. (I know I mentioned it before but, whenever you fall asleep and start to dream, try looking at your hand. It sounds easy but it's not, and is a really good way to start. I'm sure there are others).

This 'extra' time, lucid dreaming time, can be used productively for wake-time en-devours as well. (That is, once using it to set up sexual situations gets old...) I've been amazed numerous times at how easily the solution to something that I've been working on will come to me while lucid napping or dreaming. It's not really something (lucid) that I can do all the time though, unfortunately.

Back to polyphase...I think it is important to stick to a schedule at first for a good while, but (for me at least) not necessary in the long run. Caffeine and alcohol should both be avoided, though that too seems to become less important over time.

@Nate, it's interesting that you noticed that, as here that is still called your "first dream" and "second dream", or "first sleep" and "second sleep". Also, it's pretty well documented that people (well in Europe at least, but I'm guessing everywhere) used to sleep in just that way before the advent of artificial lighting.

[Jon Parr]

Cool stuff, Vlad. I have not been able to predict the occurrence of lucid dreams, either, though I haven't really tried. In fact, I'm usually hesitant to do to much manipulation for fear of waking. I don't know why I'm afraid of waking, but at the moment of realizing the lucid state, I don't want it to fade. I actually haven't given it much thought, or done any research on it, but I may have to push the envelope next time I feel it. It's like having a butterfly land on your finger, and you want to take it all in and relish the moment before it flutters away. Perhaps the lucid dream won't flutter away if I embrace it. I can't wait to try.

Lucid or not, I love the ability to remember every crazy detail of my dreams. I've heard of some people able to adopt Uberman sleep, but chose not to due to the dark nature of their dreams. Not me, I have awesome dreams, and even the dark ones I find enjoyable. Alright, I'll try to Uberman again. Wish me luck.

[Jon Parr]

Vlad, "try looking at your hand"? As in open your eyes and physically look at your hand? Or in your mind's eye?

[Vlad Jovanovic]

In your minds dreaming eye.

It's definitely hard at first to keep the balance between 'staying' lucid as possible and not slipping into a 'normal' dream, or the 'opposite',  waking up. And you can feel the tension of both sides pulling...Doing things like focusing on an object (or better yet, consciously focusing on your own hand) really helps a lot. Though 'focusing' is a bit of a misnomer, as you sort of focus slightly off to the side of what is is you are looking at, and sort of squinting a bit helps, like you're looking past the object, because if you focus directly you will in all likelihood wake up quickly. So you learn to kind of dart your eye across the object of your attention scanning over it and off to the side but not directly at it for more than a second or two. Man, it's tough to explain, but once you try it/do it you'll get it real fast. I hope at least that part is the same for everybody. I've developed a number of tricks (like certain cues or actions that will let me know I'm dreaming, which then enables you to go lucid). A common one is whenever I turn on a light switch while dreaming no light will ever come on, so that will let me know that I'm not awake. I imagine different people have there own cues though.

Nice, the butterfly metaphor is good one.

I have not noticed an increase in dark or disturbing dreams, though I don't really process those things in the way that many others seem to. Like you probably, I find there is much beauty and even truth in dreams that others would rather not want to remember, or wish to wake from. 

I wish you the best of luck Jon, but man, I think Uberman (or even getting there) is really, really tough (or I'm a big wimp) when your working as much as you do (and the type of work...customers, power tools etc...) . Now, if you were in a situation where you only had your farm to deal with...

[TCLynx]

I've rarely managed to be aware of the fact that I'm dreaming but one freaky clue I remember catching years ago was have you ever experienced breathing underwater when your dreaming?  This seems to be one where you might be having a long dream and you are underwater, then somehow in your dream you realize your body is still breathing (cause it's in bed sleeping) but you are in a dream and under water but you can still feel yourself breathing.  Since then, any dream I remember from underwater I usually realized I was dreaming during it.  I've rarely managed to do much with it though.

I have noticed that certain old old recurring nightmares I'm able to realize it's a dream and wake myself up but I learned that one in childhood.  Never figured out why those images were a nightmare though.

I do know certain kinds of dreams I get are triggered by stress and they are a message to me that I need to relax and not let things get me too wound up.

I don't remember many dreams and I know if I want to remember dreams I would need to work at it more.  Like start writing them down right away when I wake up before I even roll over to get out of bed.  Even when I try to remember they tend to fade away so quickly.

When traveling though, as a kid we used to do lots of long road trips and when sleeping in the van, I recall having lots more dreams I guess because the motion tended to keep sleep light so more of it was in REM for me.  On the Road with the broadway shows sleeping on the bus tended to have that effect too sometimes.

[Jon Parr]

Vlad, I didn't even make it through one night. You're right, I'll stick to Everyman until I get a proper window to try it again.

TC, dreams don't do much to etch in your memory, and are generally lost before you awake. The "natural" monophasic sleeper has several (usually 6) REM amd dreaming episodes each night. But unless you wake immediately after, the thoughts are lost. It takes most sleepers about 90 minutes before the first REM episode. So the whole idea of napping for only 15-20 minutes every 4 hrs doesn't allow a normal sleeper to even get a hint of REM before rousing and going about your business. That is what causes the zombie effect. Apparently, as Vlad alluded to earlier, REM sleep is what "rests" the mind. Other sleep stages rest the body, and are arguably not really necessary. When REM is deprived, though, you're body/mind tells you in a big way. After a couple of days of sleep depravation, your mind will get the hint that there is only going to be a brief window of rest, and when you lay down to sleep, you go straight to REM and dreaming. It's awesome! REM lasts only 15 minutes usually, so you wake immediately after dreaming, and remember every detail. For me, after about 6-8 failed attempts at Uberman, but quite accustomed to landing in dreamstate the moment my head hit the pillow, was my first lucid dream.

Have fun with it, TC. :)