Tracking reality:

[neverfear]

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What's up with that?

[Raychel A Watkins]

CHEERS CAREY

How elloquently put.  One can probably NEVER trace the BEGINNING SOURCE of AP.  So much went into its making and how it is today.  The important part is that we carry it on, that we share it with every person we meet.  I am always amazed when someone catches the spark and runs with it.  I am no one and people come to my house to see what I am doing and they go home and build a little system.  Of course some think I am crazy, those will be back when "the lights go out".  We think we are out there alone and actually there is a flame burning undercover. 

Hang in there everyone and in the words of that song (whoever wrote it )  WE SHALL OVERCOME.

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Beautiful and appropriate sentiment, Raychel, especially on this day of celebration of Martin Luther King, Jr.  We shall overcome indeed!

[TCLynx]

There are many people out there who have been doing Aquaponics for generations without even knowing the word "Aquaponics" exists.

Then there are people who I meet and they ask me if I invented this because my set up is the first one they have seen and I have to tell them no, Aquaponics has existed since ancient history and it's only in the last several decades we thought to put it in plastic containers.  I can't claim credit but I'll still tell you all about it in hopes that you will pass it on too.

Many people Feel that if some one they know taught something to them, they want that person they know and feel connected with to be the most important, it isn't uncommon.  It is just a little unsettling to see it portrayed in a tantrum like manner.  We each live in our own reality, we each experience the world from our own senses and filter it through our own experiences.  It can be really difficult to feel that connectedness with the rest of existence.  Growing my own food helps me Feel it.

[Chip Pilkington]

Guess I'm missing something here. AP is a great hobby and maybe even an ok way to make a living if you're good and you work very hard. Unfortunately, it's not going to save the world. There are no deep interconnections to the universe and all living beings and AP will not feed all of the starving children. AP has nothing to do with Martin Luther or singing Kumbaya.

Everyone has made their points and neverfear appears to have gone away. Maybe Sylvia should delete this thread as this much cheese will surely clog someone's pump :)

[Alexandre Letellier]

"There are no deep interconnections to the universe and all living beings"

Hum ... even science would have to disagree with you there. Where did the atoms from your body come from ? And where were they before that ? and so on ... And that's just a common knowledge fact I'm using here, but the deeper science goes the more this interconnection of each and every aspect of the universe becomes apparent. Interconnected-ness is not solely a fundamental principle of spiritually oriented people anymore ... Just saying, you can feel otherwise but nether scientists nor "gurus" will back you up nowadays :)

As for the other bit about saving starving children I guess I could use your own words : "if you're good and you work very hard" who knows ? Worth a (collective) try ... Let's overcome shall we ?   :)

[Carey Ma]

Sorry Chip, I have to disagree. I truly believe AP or more correctly IMTAAS (Integrated Multi-Trophic Agriculture and Aquaculture Systems are a major key to the salvation of humankind. And yes it will feed all the starving children. As for respect and rejoicing?...Why not?...AP is better than sliced bread!

Anytime one grows/ raises life, one is connected to more than greed and selfishness, likely prevailing to become nicer. I know, I know, in your book you probably call them/ us loosers. If so, mote it be. I can live with that.

Also, why delete? I think people can learn a lot from this discussion.

@ Rupert: In my opinion its all a matter of intention; if one does AP strictly for money, they are nothing but whores of capitalism in my book (sorry folks, this sounds rougher than I intend, I know you are just trying to make a living~ if it makes you feel better, I admit to being a prostitute for money). I believe money/ income should be the byproduct of a successful endeavor. Commercialization and making a respectable living does not have to mean exploitation. 

I am so glad to see your response though nowhere close to what I might have imagined, but good surprise nevertheless. I am a conundrum onto myself. What can I say..hehe. I guess that's why this is a forum and psychobabble tolerated.

As for patents; I believe your view is very standard and indeed for which it was created. But as with most weapons, one can find extraordinary ways to use them in defense. For example, if I hold a patent to a process I can prevent large producers from selling my product by making it not worth the trouble. How? By transferring it for a nominal charge to cover money spent on research so every person can hire a handyman/ gardener/ pet store to make the product cheaper/ better than the large corp. can.

I admit my way of thinking is impractical and naive but that is what a governing body is suppose to do: nourish and protect. Just because everyone is brainwashed into believing that the accumulation of money and power is the same as success/ self worth. I do not prescribe. I still believe humans can exist in purity and piety.

Noah eh? Good for him....You're funny!

@ the ladies: My respects!

[neverfear]

Chip Pilkington said:

...neverfear appears to have gone away. Maybe Sylvia should delete this thread...

Cowboy logic  - Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.  - There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works.  - If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try  orderin' somebody else's dog around.  - If you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop diggin'.  - Never smack a man who's chewin' tobacco.  - It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep.  - Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut.  - Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes  from bad judgment.  - Always drink upstream from the herd.  - When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be  suprised if they learn their lesson.  - When you're throwin' your weight around, be ready to have it thrown  around by somebody else.  - Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier 'n puttin' it back.  - Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so  important to know what it is, but it's critical to know what it was.  - The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it  back in your pocket.  - A smart a** just doesn't fit in a saddle.  - Never miss a good chance to shut up.

[neverfear]

The subject title of this thread is tracking reality.

When I asked McMurtry for the data to his work/research he shared his files with me. That data and those facts were posted in this thread.  Thus the reason why every attempt has been made to derail, hijack and/or delete this thread, and/or ignore those facts.  TMK, the knowledge, experience, time and money of every member on this site combined have not even come close to those numbers/data.

If I'm wrong then post your data, after-all that's why I started this thread in the first place.

The fact of the matter is, after all these years no one has been able to improve on what McMurtry and team did many years ago.

Thank you all for helping me complete "TRACKING REALITY".

neverfear

[Ricky Flickenger]

You never actually "asked" for data. Everyone here is happy to share what they know. You started the thread by accusing the site as being a fraud. You started off as accussing,not asking. Do you see why people responded the way they did? If you would have actually asked for specific dfata on specific topics people would have shared or pointed youin the right direction.

If you already have all the information from the man who seems to be your mentor, why not just share that info like he freely did with you and like you wanted us to do? You want credit to go to him? AWESOME!Then site him as your resource when you share data. You seem very angry - and at a bunch ofpeople whohave done but help me. Peace to you - find some solice in the data you sohighly revere

[neverfear]

Flickenger???  You're kidding me!?!?  Ricky, is your grandpa's name Eugene, from Denver?  We grew up together, he was 'one of the gang'. Brings back fond memories, but some bad one's two.  He took a shot (hi powered rifle) at two of my brothers.

We have it made now huh!  My screen has this little red button on it, and when I click on it, it all goes away, just like that!

What a concept eh!

[Ricky Flickenger]

No, not my grandpa -and now you are making less sense than before, good day to you.

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Neverfear, I'm afraid this has gone too far and you are no longer welcome in this community.