E coli and food safety

[Chris Smith]

The recent outbreak of e coli in Europe has many people here extremely worried. As the body count increases I am becoming worried too. How will this affect us? Well, I have seen a dramatic drop in sales lately. This is in part due to many of my regular customers returning to Alaska and other northern latitudes for the summer. I do believe the scare is slowing my sales too. I am having a hard time getting new customers with the bad publicity on lettuce, cucumbers and tomatoes. Even though the outbreak is on the opposite side of the planet there is fear here.

Now more than ever it is important for us to come up with some food safety guidelines for the growing aquaponic industry. These guidelines need to be based on science not blanket rules that do not apply to aquaponics. If we do not do this on our own I fear that food safety regulations that are influenced by agribusiness will squash aquaponics by hyping the fact that have fish feces in our systems.

Recently Friendly Aquaponics lost their Costco account because a leading food safety company has changed their stance on aquaponics. The food safety company no longer consider aquaponics safe because of fish manure in the system. The fact that cold blooded animals do not carry or transmit e coli seems to be irrelevant. I have watched Tim and Susanne drink system water on a regular basis for more than a year and a half and they have never had a problem. I have drank system water as well and I have never gotten sick either.

I know a local coffee farmer who had a similar problem based on regulations that should not apply to his crop. Here is a quote from him:"I was appalled by the news that the Food Safety folks had put the hurts to you(Friendly Aquaponics) by in effect knocking you out of Costco for the time being. On a much smaller scale I was forced to build a "coffee roasting facility" last year because the organic folks elected to enforce a law that really shouldn't apply to coffee at all. Also they dinged me two years ago because I used a manure containing (organically certified) fertilizer within 120 days of harvest. The fertilizer  was on the ground for a crop that is picked off a tree, skin removed, dried in the sun, parchment milled off, roasted to 450F, then boiled/steamed by the customer. Go figure."

The upcoming aquaponics conference could be a good time for the players in commercial to get together, discuss, and adopt guidelines for aquaponics safety.

[Averan]

It seems that what we need is 3rd party reviewed evidence that there are no dangerous pathogens in our AP systems.  Perhaps the association can organize studies and group results for review to present to the FDA and USDA.  We need to be able to speak their language and be active about making sure AP has a future on any scale in the USA.

[Earl ward]

Here is the current Code of federal regulations for certified Organic product. After doing a little reading I think we will need to apply for a waiver for aquaponics to be labeled as certified organic and pass food Safety audits. Actually I was surprised friendly’s received organic certification in the first place, not that it should not have been; but, because of the regulations.here is a link hope it works http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/GPOgate.cgi?WAISdocID=Xjiv...

go to part 205.203

 

[Green Acre Aquaponics]

Great suggestions Averan!  Those of us that are meerly laying the frame work for this association recognize one of the priorities this association will need to address is the need for peer accepted documents from either a university or other scientific document, just as Earl pointed out and will be discussing how to make that happen. 

[Green Acre Aquaponics]

Thanks for posting Earl.  I see why you say you are surprised about Friendly getting organic certification as the entire document relates to soil grown crops and plainly stipulates how animal manure most be handled.  However, two certifying agencies were able to inerpret that code and make an informed decision in recognition that fish manure and animal manure are not the same thing and do not harbour similiar pathogens.  Coming from the construction industry, I liken it to the way one building inspector's interpretation of the code could be very different from another inspector's interpretation, but whoever had prevailing jurisdiction was the authority in the case.   

 Is there such a thing as a waiver or realistically are we perhaps seeking a revision to the existing code to encompass alternative agricultural methods?  Of course these methods will have to be tested and supported by peer accredited and accpeted documents in order to have any real credence.  Any chance you plan on attending the conference in Florida in September? You would be a wonderful resource at the Association meeting!

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Susanne Friend was telling me that Dr. Nick Savidov did a long (1 - 2 year?) study at the CDC studying e.coli levels in aquaponics, but it was never published.  Perhaps with some encourage ment from this community, or the new assocation, he would do that!

[Earl ward]

as of right now yes I plan on attending, yes a waiver is possible, and how to apply is in the regulations. I have the PDF but I don’t know how to attach it. You can get them by searching- code of federal regulations finding the site, then search the word organic .If I was friendly’s I would get a hold of the state agriculture agency, in the rules there a definitions of what is manure- it is only manure from live stock. In my opinion I have never heard or seen fish listed under this term. Livestock refers to farm animals I.e. mammals. This is probably why they were certified in the first place.  Also friendly’s can appeal the decision of the certifying agency which is also in the regulation, If I was to guess it was Costco who had the problem not the third party  certification which means they cannot appeal.

Green Acre Organics said:

Thanks for posting Earl.  I see why you say you are surprised about Friendly getting organic certification as the entire document relates to soil grown crops and plainly stipulates how animal manure most be handled.  However, two certifying agencies were able to inerpret that code and make an informed decision in recognition that fish manure and animal manure are not the same thing and do not harbour similiar pathogens.  Coming from the construction industry, I liken it to the way one building inspector's interpretation of the code could be very different from another inspector's interpretation, but whoever had prevailing jurisdiction was the authority in the case.   

 Is there such a thing as a waiver or realistically are we perhaps seeking a revision to the existing code to encompass alternative agricultural methods?  Of course these methods will have to be tested and supported by peer accredited and accpeted documents in order to have any real credence.  Any chance you plan on attending the conference in Florida in September? You would be a wonderful resource at the Association meeting!

[Earl ward]

 After  some more investigaion,

This is taken out of the regulations for the national organic program 7 CFR part 205, the part about composting livestock manure is a regulation; but, if you read the definitions in the CFR fish are exempt from this by definition. So if Friendly’s lost organic certification or a food safety audit based on this, the certifying agency was wrong based by the definition- published in Part 7 Federal Code of Regulations. I would strongly appeal this decision to the state agricultural board; might even go as far as calling and writing, my congressman and senator for my state.

 

Livestock. Any cattle, sheep, goat,

swine, poultry, or equine animals used

for food or in the production of food,

fiber, feed, or other agricultural-based

consumer products; wild or domesticated

game; or other nonplant life,

except such term shall not include

aquatic animals or bees for the production

of food, fiber, feed, or other agricultural-

based consumer products.

 

[David Waite]

That is great news Earl. Maybe we have a chance of skirting the manure component after all.

[Averan]

Excellent news!  I was hoping this might be the case.

[Green Acre Aquaponics]

Incredible Earl!  I will forward this along to Susanne.  I hope to meet you in September!

[Earl ward]

Me to ,aquaponics is my passion besides my wife, I better put that in there, just in case she ever reads this

Green Acre Organics s.aid:

Incredible Earl!  I will forward this along to Susanne.  I hope to meet you in September!

[Raychel A Watkins]

You are very right TC our outside systems could be under attack from all sorts of things.  The birda fly over mine all the time and I find the seeds from the fruits they have eaten on other vegetables.  How do we prevent this.  If we are not commercial we problably have no worry.  I have lived on a farm most of my life around every kind of animal.  I cleaned chickens for years.  i never suffered any gastrointestinal problems.  We become immune to the organsisms around us.  One of my favorite sayings is " eat a teaspoon of dirt everyday and you will be much healthier>"  There is truth in the statement because what we are exposed to we become immune to also.  But the problem is when we sell produce to people who are not around our animals and the like.  Every since I read the food safter paper by the DVM my brain has been going wild.  I had forgotten that there are so many organisms out there that could be a potential problem.  Even though I know human microbiology pretty well it still shocked me as to the number of organisms we could be subject to. 

One problem if we decide to be commercial would be to have a strick hand washing program.  Some times we don't think about these things.  You might think that is easy to begin but think again.  I work in a hospital and I don't like to wash my hands as often as they say I should.  If you have a green house it would be a lot easier but if you are on the outside with little covering it becomes much harder.  Shigella is an organism that is only spread from human to human but we have epidemics in the resturant and fast food places because someone carrying the organisms didn't was their hands enough.

You think organic means you are out of the woods.  Think again  I think they have or are considering organic bean sprouts to be the problem in the German situation.  Organic a lot of time means manure and I don't care how long you let it lie there could still be viable organisms especially if they are spore formers ie: Bacillus, and Clostridium.  It gives a person much to think about and to consider just what would make the food safe.  I am not sure you can promise with total certainty that it is absolutly safe but only that it is safer. 

In Hawaii we have slugs that carry rat lung worm.  They crawl on the lettuce and other veggies.  A few people have been contaminated by this.  It puts people into a coma and certainly scares me.  I now wash every leaf of my veggies by hand.  The other day we came up with a slug on a lettuce leaf.  What can I say except to be as safe as possible