Aquaponics without a PUMP

[Jon Parr]

I'm throwing this out there for discussion, spawned by a recent blog, but something on my mind since first being interested in AP.  NO PUMPS. Can it happen, and how?

Why? Well, 'cause if we didn't need pumps or electricity we probably wouldn't use them, and AP might truly join the ranks as a sustainable food production method, and applicable to feeding the poor, saving the world, yada yada...and at the heart of it all, I'm cheap and lazy. I find personal victory in reaching the end goal faster, smarter, easier, cheaper than "how it normally done".

The only thing that comes to mind is a wicking bed of some sort. And I need to consult my book of wild ideas before I open my mouth.

Now I won't be a stickler about including some pumps using waste energy, or some low-tech mechanics, or human power, but try to avoid solar PV and windmill electricity (not that they are not excellent, but they are being done and discussed elsewhere).

link to blog: http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/profiles/blogs/a-no-pump-sy...

Pics, sketches, links, etc are always nice. Happy brainstorming.

Jon

[David - WI]

If it's a closed container shouldn't the n's cancel out... and if the volume is fixed the V's cancel out?

So you just have P/T initial = P/T final where T is in Calvin?

P2 = P1(T2/T1) = 1atm * (303k/293k) = 1.034atm?

Bob Campbell said:

I would like some help

If I have 1/2 m³ of air in a sealed container and I raise the temperature from 25C to 35C how much would the pressure change?

I believe air has a density of 1.25kg/m³  and a molecular weight of 29 g/mol

Ideal gas law constant  = 0.0821 (L. atm/mol. K)

I have an equation that looks like this but I get mixed up with the mols

This problem said a gas with 1mol in 1/2Liter at 0C

Would I be correct to say air has 1.25kg/m³ /29 g/mol per 1000 liters?

If so is the answer to my problem 0.002003 atm?

[David - WI]

I don't know the answer to your question.

If you use one of the online ideal gas law calculators you can enter the first temperature and find that pressure then enter the second temperature and find that pressure. IDL Calculator

1 mol in 1/2 liter at 25C is 48.93 atm

1 mol in 1/2 liter at 35C is 50.57 atm

----------------------------------------------------------

                                         1.64 atm change

Doing it "my way" it would be 48.93 atm x 1.034 = 50.59 atm or 1.66 atm change.

But, I would think you would want to first choose a "starting" pressure and calculate how many mols there would actually be, then change the temperature and calculate the new pressure?

So if you started with 100 psi in a 1/2 liter container at 25C (0.1391 mol) and heated it to 35C you would have 103.4 psi roughly?

[David - WI]

I feel like a dog chasing his own tail... the link takes be back here!  LOL

Bob Campbell said:

There is a discussion a <AQ Without a Pump - CLICK HERE>  in which I would like to present an idea complete with math for the concept of using a Fluidyne motor/pump which would be driven by the expansion of a gas, and a heat source.  I'm hoping that source can be the sun.

[David - WI]

A steam turbine generator would be pretty cool... powered by a solar boiler or garbage incinerator or?

Green Turbine

[KlaHaYa Gardens]

Why don't you think it is feasible for the return water (that is the gravitational force in the downward flow of the return water from grow bed to fish tank) to turn the screw?  Granted, a modification would need to be made to create a surface (exempli gratia: a cup or blade on a wheel) for the water to strike in turn propelling the screw.

 
TCLynx said:

Good Link there David,

I haven't had a chance to put much time into researching it.  Probably more efficient to use the waste for making enough fuel for cooking.

I don't know much about the fuel cells so have no idea if they would be efficient enough to provide the electricity to run an electric pump to do the job.

Hum, I wonder if using the methane to heat water to make a little steam engine to drive Archemedies Screw idea or something like that would work.

[Chi Ma]

I'm coming to this discussion late and I haven't read through all the post. Has any one ever thought about a grow bed/ fish tank combo on a teeter totter?  Growbed on one side fish tank on other. Tip the tank when you want to flood the grow bed then flip it back. Might work on a small scale. Large scale not so much.

[KlaHaYa Gardens]

Actually, I was contemplating something along those lines and also contemplating a pendulum.  However, as those contemplation projects are intrigue and food for the brain, I like an Archimedes screw better for several reasons including function and form.  Not only could it be very effective, but I think it could be quite lovely to watch.
 
Chi Ma said:

I'm coming to this discussion late and I haven't read through all the post. Has any one ever thought about a grow bed/ fish tank combo on a teeter totter?  Growbed on one side fish tank on other. Tip the tank when you want to flood the grow bed then flip it back. Might work on a small scale. Large scale not so much.

[gamal hamada]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3NeViSoNwE

I will do the work of Ram BMP pump to drain the water and lifted by 50 cubic meters .... Tzerah the non-use of electricity is a theory must be firmly on the foundation work .... to prevent power outages and avoid the risk of electrocution and save energy costs .... Asis something Mtdaor of sustainable compatible with the environment
....................
In this only Alfedo ..... can dispense pump ... to take advantage of different heights....

[Jim Hall]

I built a variation of Murray Hallam's wicking bed early in the year, but never got to play with them much. The idea, especially as technology keeps coming up with more absorbent material does intrigue me.

[Gerald Watts]

This could be work with a big enough pond.  Aeration is only required to compensate for a lack of oxygen which is dependent of pond surface area, so a shallow pond with rafts on one half could work.  Water will naturally circulate with the rotation of the earth, more at greater latitude not at all on the equator. 

jerry

[David - WI]

Shallow ponds die off all the time from lack of DO... and for Coreolis' force to provide circulation your pond would have to be the size of the Indian Ocean.

[Eric Warwick]

Not if you have a "macro-quantum-force-field."

David - WI said:

Shallow ponds die off all the time from lack of DO... and for Coreolis' force to provide circulation your pond would have to be the size of the Indian Ocean.