Adding salts

[Gary Anderson]

There was a discussion on here the other day where Vlad suggested adding salts (sodium chloride, potassium chloride and epsom salts) i was wondering how often do you add this mixture?

[Bob Terrell]

Pat, yes based on that math  you would bee adding 15 pounds for a 20,000 gallon fish tank.  If you are going to add this I would take Vlad advice AND CUT THAT IN HALF only putting 7.5 pounds in your tank.  i did enjoy out phone conversation this date.  We all feed each other.
Pat James said:

3 ounces? I was doing the math and trying to figure if I needed to add 15 or so POUNDS or 150...... I sure did not want to misplace A decimal....

Verna Gross said:

After reading most of the posts on this topic I added 3 oz of Epsom Salt to my system last week and noticed a remarkable difference in my plants as well as my fish activity within 3 days. I have a 250 gallon IBC tote and 4 50 gal grow beds

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Well no...for a 20,000 US Gallon tank, that would be around 150lbs at 1ppt Bob. so 75lbs for 500ppm (0.5ppt). It may seem like a lot, but so is 20K gallons :)  and that is what it works out to...

I go over the 'nuts and bolts' behind these numbers in the class that I help teach with Jon Parr, but most all of that info I've written about somewhere here...it's strewn about in various threads on the forum...

Bob Terrell said:

Pat, yes based on that math  you would bee adding 15 pounds for a 20,000 gallon fish tank.  If you are going to add this I would take Vlad advice AND CUT THAT IN HALF only putting 7.5 pounds in your tank.  i did enjoy out phone conversation this date.  We all feed each other.
Pat James said:

3 ounces? I was doing the math and trying to figure if I needed to add 15 or so POUNDS or 150...... I sure did not want to misplace A decimal....

Verna Gross said:

After reading most of the posts on this topic I added 3 oz of Epsom Salt to my system last week and noticed a remarkable difference in my plants as well as my fish activity within 3 days. I have a 250 gallon IBC tote and 4 50 gal grow beds

[Bob Terrell]

well, 3oz for 250 gal =12oz per 1000 gal. 12oz  X 20 (20,000 divided by 1000) = 240 oz divided by 16 (1 lb) = 15lb  where is my math wrong?  It has been a long day and I know I'm tired  I worked it 3 times and still come up with 15lbs.
 
Vlad Jovanovic said:

Well no...for a 20,000 US Gallon tank, that would be around 150lbs at 1ppt Bob. so 75lbs for 500ppm (0.5ppt). It may seem like a lot, but so is 20K gallons  and that is what it works out to...

Bob Terrell said:

Pat, yes based on that math  you would bee adding 15 pounds for a 20,000 gallon fish tank.  If you are going to add this I would take Vlad advice AND CUT THAT IN HALF only putting 7.5 pounds in your tank.  i did enjoy out phone conversation this date.  We all feed each other.
Pat James said:

3 ounces? I was doing the math and trying to figure if I needed to add 15 or so POUNDS or 150...... I sure did not want to misplace A decimal....

Verna Gross said:

After reading most of the posts on this topic I added 3 oz of Epsom Salt to my system last week and noticed a remarkable difference in my plants as well as my fish activity within 3 days. I have a 250 gallon IBC tote and 4 50 gal grow beds

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Your math seems fine Bob. Your starting premise of '3oz fo 250 gallons' (to get at 1ppt) is what is off though :)
Wait...I know see that you got that from Verna's post. Yup using your math and Verna's dose, Pat would be proportionally be adding "Verna's dose" and not 1ppt or 500ppm (0.5ppt)...mystery solved. Sorry for the misunderstanding Bob...

Lest anyone get the wrong idea, DO NOT go adding 1ppt, or even 500ppm of just Epsom salt to a new system. 

Bob Terrell said:

well, 3oz for 250 gal =12oz per 1000 gal. 12oz  X 20 (20,000 divided by 1000) = 240 oz divided by 16 (1 lb) = 15lb  where is my math wrong?  It has been a long day and I know I'm tired  I worked it 3 times and still come up with 15lbs.
 
Vlad Jovanovic said:

Well no...for a 20,000 US Gallon tank, that would be around 150lbs at 1ppt Bob. so 75lbs for 500ppm (0.5ppt). It may seem like a lot, but so is 20K gallons  and that is what it works out to...

Bob Terrell said:

Pat, yes based on that math  you would bee adding 15 pounds for a 20,000 gallon fish tank.  If you are going to add this I would take Vlad advice AND CUT THAT IN HALF only putting 7.5 pounds in your tank.  i did enjoy out phone conversation this date.  We all feed each other.
Pat James said:

3 ounces? I was doing the math and trying to figure if I needed to add 15 or so POUNDS or 150...... I sure did not want to misplace A decimal....

Verna Gross said:

After reading most of the posts on this topic I added 3 oz of Epsom Salt to my system last week and noticed a remarkable difference in my plants as well as my fish activity within 3 days. I have a 250 gallon IBC tote and 4 50 gal grow beds

[Bob Terrell]

so how many oz per 250 gals would you reccomend?

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Your math seems fine Bob. Your starting premise of '3oz fo 250 gallons' (to get at 1ppt) is what is off though
Wait...I know see that you got that from Verna's post. Yup using your math, Pat would be proportionally be adding "Verna's dose" and not 1ppt or 500ppm (0.5ppt)...mystery solved. 

Lest anyone get the wrong idea, DO NOT go adding 1ppt, or even 500ppm of just Epsom salt to a new system. 

Bob Terrell said:

well, 3oz for 250 gal =12oz per 1000 gal. 12oz  X 20 (20,000 divided by 1000) = 240 oz divided by 16 (1 lb) = 15lb  where is my math wrong?  It has been a long day and I know I'm tired  I worked it 3 times and still come up with 15lbs.
 
Vlad Jovanovic said:

Well no...for a 20,000 US Gallon tank, that would be around 150lbs at 1ppt Bob. so 75lbs for 500ppm (0.5ppt). It may seem like a lot, but so is 20K gallons  and that is what it works out to...

Bob Terrell said:

Pat, yes based on that math  you would bee adding 15 pounds for a 20,000 gallon fish tank.  If you are going to add this I would take Vlad advice AND CUT THAT IN HALF only putting 7.5 pounds in your tank.  i did enjoy out phone conversation this date.  We all feed each other.
Pat James said:

3 ounces? I was doing the math and trying to figure if I needed to add 15 or so POUNDS or 150...... I sure did not want to misplace A decimal....

Verna Gross said:

After reading most of the posts on this topic I added 3 oz of Epsom Salt to my system last week and noticed a remarkable difference in my plants as well as my fish activity within 3 days. I have a 250 gallon IBC tote and 4 50 gal grow beds

[Vlad Jovanovic]

About 2lbs of salt in 250 US gallons would get you to 1ppt. 

2 parts KCl 2 parts NaCl (sea salt, dehydrated seawater) and 1 part Epsom salt (MgSO4-7H20)

When you combine all 3 salts the grand total of their combined weights should your 1ppt value (in this case 2lbs). Or if you're cutting that in half...all 3 together should equal 1lb in that 2:2:1 ratio...

[Pat James]

I had based my own math on 1mg per liter gives you 1 ppm so I had something like 76,000 liters....

starting there I was afraid of missing the decimal. I talked to Bob and then decided to hold off the sodium chloride for a bit. I was concerned about gill damage since my nitrite is up around 2 ppm,maybe a hair higher. The fish are looking active, at least the minnows and I have been holding the feed for now.

I did put the 8 pounds of Epsom I bought as I never see a problem with a little dose of mag on my human patients... :D :D

[Vlad Jovanovic]

If you were thinking of salting to help with nitrite poisoning, it is only the chloride salts that help with this. While some of your plants may appreciate the epsom salt, it won't really help mitigate nitrite toxicity...

[Jon Parr]

Nice plug, Vlad

On the subject, I'd just like to emphasize to all that the term "salt" is very generic, and technically is any ionic compound. Chloride salts like NaCl and KCl contain, of course, chloride. Chlorides are essential to all fish, plants, and humans, and very specifically chloride allows fish to expel ammonia, and mitigate nitrite absorption. Epsom salt is MgSO4, and is not a chloride salt, and thus will not serve no choride function. And, chloride needs to be present BEFORE nitrite is present, in order to help. It is a prevention, not a cure. Also, all three salts in discussion here are nuetral, and will not alter pH. 

Also on the subject, Na and K are largely interchangeble, and don't be afraid to use some sodium. It's not bad for plants as is commonly believed, so long as we are talking about less than 3-5 ppt, which is a lot (saltier than your pasta water). Some fish (my striped bass keeled over at 5ppt) are super sensitive to potassium, so research that before adding too much. 

[Pat James]

In light of my continuing nitrite spike and the recent fiasco with my pump( on my blog)... I added a 40 pouNds of sodium chloride to my pond. I did this in stages. I a,m aware this is 1/4 dose of even 1 ppt,but that is what I had on hand...

Nitrite has increased so I figure I have little to lose. I can always back flush the salt into the sewer...(TOO BAD for those that oppose that)but my fish come first... I've had enough trouble the past few days without worrying about dumping a little salt into sewer when commercial guys dump tons...

[Jon Parr]

You gotta do what you gotta do, Pat. No harm in that. Not much different than flushing the toilet, right. The backflush, including the nitrites, are good for the garden and fruit trees too. I understand you added salt as you had it, but just to be clear you don't need to ease into it. In fact, for disease and parasite treatment you want the change in salinity to be as fast as possible.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Pat don't fret too much about your lowered dose, that 1ppt amount is just a good general tonic for stress relief, slime coat health, disease recovery type of number...For specifically nitrite mitigating purposes 17ppm of chloride salt for every 1ppm of nitrite will help ease the effects, but like Jon mentioned, salting is most effective before nitrite spikes ensue...

Sorry to hear about your pump valve giving you grief.