Plumbing Buried

[Farcry305]

Why is it that i cant find  system plumbing like mine? I have my pluming going out of the bottom of media beds using a bell siphon constant flood and drain.(pump never turns off) I have the plumbing go under the ground. its  about 2 ft below the media bed then goes to a 90 degree and it runs horizontal about 8 ft over to the DWC then 90 deg up about 20 inches and finally 90 deg to dump in DWC/sump. 

The bad thing is when i break the siphon i have to re prime it but it sure beats walking over pipes.

Why is it that i see every flood and drain with one on top of the other?

Or long runs of pipe to walk around?

\Thanks in advance

[Farcry305]

Forgot to elaborate a bit.

275 gal tank. 2--4x4 media rock beds and a 4ft x 17ft long DWC between 15 and 18 inches deep between 700-800 gallons total

[Jon Parr]

Farcry, many bury their pipes. There are pros and cons with virtually all AP decisions, and that is true for buried pipes as well. On the good side, buried pipes are safe from kicking, freezing, UV damage, and more. On the down side, they tend to settle some solids, cool your water (may be good or bad, depending on the fish, the season, and the setting), and are harder to access for cleaning, modifying, or finding the fish that made it inside and plugged the line (ask JD Sawyer about that one).I suppose everyone needs to weigh the options, and thanks for letting people know that buried pipes are an option.

[Farcry305]

 Its set up like this. Pump from DWC to tank, Line is buried not the temporary PVC one you see in back right of photo thats overflow from tank soon to be NFT. Tank gravity flows to both grow beds (only pvc obstruction ) then siphon from beds under ground  to the DWC and then pumped to tank again.

Also the standard stand pipe to the bell numbers like 2 inches taller bell, do not mean anything to this design.

[Farcry305]

Anyone have photos?

[Farcry305]

Ok last try does any body bury plumbing that is not on  a pump? Regular old siphon and under ground . Thanks 

[Pat James]

I am in the process of burying the line form my pump to my cistern. Well, once, I am convinced I have sealed all leaks. But my system is far differnt from almost anybody else here.

I am using a swimming pool for my fish tank. The water is pumped directly from both a bottom drain and a 'skimmer'. The it goes to the pool filter.

I have my doubts about my pool filter. I think the gaskets in my versi-flow valve system are shot. I am not seeing any clarification that would normally be present.

My lines from the pool to the pump have been buried for years, I recently dug a trench for the return lines from the filter. with ball valves to direct flow to an elevated cistern (275 gal IBC).

I actively pump t the cistern but let the water flow passively thru the growbeds. and extra filtration and then back to the in ground pool. i could not bury the lines ost cistern if I wanted to as it would entail digging up a patio deck. I am content at this point with stepping over the 4 in drain line from the growbeds.

To answer your original question, I think any line should be open and easy to access until I was convinced it was located exactly where I wanted it and ALL the bugs had been worked out,It is too hard to dig up and clean lines you suspect later on...

[Jim Fisk]

Such impatience young fella. You sound like me!! Here are some pics of our buried pipes. I agree about steping over pipes. Poor planning. Oops there I go stepping on toes again. But No pipes to step over in our 2000 gal system.Flow is very heavy thru the return drain so I don't expect any clogs under there. Time will tell. Not that hard to dig up though. And it all looks so good when you're done and a bit mysterious to the untrained eye. I only "pump" clear sump water. Saves on pumps and pump clogs.

Farcry305 said:

Ok last try does any body bury plumbing that is not on  a pump? Regular old siphon and under ground . Thanks 

[Farcry305]

What is your water height in the rock grow bed? How tall is the stand pipe and height of the bell? Do you have to prime the plumbing like me because of down then back up plumbing? 

Jim Fisk said:

Such impatience young fella. You sound like me!! Here are some pics of our buried pipes. I agree about steping over pipes. Poor planning. Oops there I go stepping on toes again. But No pipes to step over in our 2000 gal system.Flow is very heavy thru the return drain so I don't expect any clogs under there. Time will tell. Not that hard to dig up though. And it all looks so good when you're done and a bit mysterious to the untrained eye. I only "pump" clear sump water. Saves on pumps and pump clogs.

Farcry305 said:

Ok last try does any body bury plumbing that is not on  a pump? Regular old siphon and under ground . Thanks 

[Jim Fisk]

I went with the standard 12" media, 10" water height which requires about a 9" to top of funnel. You can add rings of 2" pipe to raise it when you want. Much harder to drop the level

NO, I have no low spots except in the line to the woodstove HW coil for that very reason. ALL my lines flow down hill. No traps, no upflow anywhere else. I made a zero backpressure check valve (no spring) which could help you there. Mine is in that woodstove run and I will be adding one just above the sump pond pump.

Here is a dia. of that ck valve and it works great for about 6.00 (and fun to make) BUT I don't send fish waste thru it. Only clear sump water (and I still am waiting to see if bacteria build up in it), so keep that in mind. My buried sump is after the GBs and very clear. Any place fish waste and uneaten food can gather and clog your system, IT WILL

BTW I also do not oversize pipes for the same reason. Any place the flow can slow down the waste will drop out and settle. IMO bigger pipes is not always better. Better to be just big enough. Even in clear sump water bacteria is alive and well and will grow given a chance. You will notice that even my FTs are down hill one to the next, so the waste pipe flows down hill as it passes them. Plumbing 101. Sh&t flows down hill.

"What is your water height in the rock grow bed? How tall is the stand pipe and height of the bell? Do you have to prime the plumbing like me because of down then back up plumbing?"

[Farcry305]

check valve is a good idea but not necessary on my setup ,and yes poo setting not a good idea. I ran a double siphon at first in each of my 2 beds (one internal bell and 1 external u siphon at the same time ) so i could go up and down with nice force but one grow bed  kept giving me a hard time. All working good now though with just a bell.

Jim Fisk said:

I went with the standard 12" media, 10" water height which requires about a 9" to top of funnel. You can add rings of 2" pipe to raise it when you want. Much harder to drop the level

NO, I have no low spots except in the line to the woodstove HW coil for that very reason. ALL my lines flow down hill. No traps, no upflow anywhere else. I made a zero backpressure check valve (no spring) which could help you there. Mine is in that woodstove run and I will be adding one just above the sump pond pump.

Here is a dia. of that ck valve and it works great for about 6.00 (and fun to make) BUT I don't send fish waste thru it. Only clear sump water (and I still am waiting to see if bacteria build up in it), so keep that in mind. My buried sump is after the GBs and very clear. Any place fish waste and uneaten food can gather and clog your system, IT WILL

BTW I also do not oversize pipes for the same reason. Any place the flow can slow down the waste will drop out and settle. IMO bigger pipes is not always better. Better to be just big enough. Even in clear sump water bacteria is alive and well and will grow given a chance. You will notice that even my FTs are down hill one to the next, so the waste pipe flows down hill as it passes them. Plumbing 101. Sh&t flows down hill.

"What is your water height in the rock grow bed? How tall is the stand pipe and height of the bell? Do you have to prime the plumbing like me because of down then back up plumbing?"

[TCLynx]

Having plumbing go down and then back up creates a trap and if you have the outlet of your siphons are sealed into plumbing that is essentially a trap, it may make it very difficult to get the siphons to work properly.  If the water level in the drain line is low enough below the grow beds you might be able to modify the drain connections to allow for a air gap to let the siphons break properly.  Here is a link to a page with some diagrams

Useful diagrams

[Farcry305]

I dont see how you diagram on right would work. It would overflow if the pipe was like mine and went back up at the exit . Mine works great the thing im typing about is i dont see any other like mine.  It took alot of work but i finally got it correct. My bell floats a little then siphon starts because of the trap, unlike the standard text book thing all are doing.