bed liners

[Ron Becker]

Where do i get the heavy bed liners? I'm new and i'm trying to gather supplies to start my build. I also need a source for IBS's. I would really appreciate any help on this matter. Tks. Ron Becker

[Kent Smith]

I am in Conneautville, Pa which is south of Erie. The IBCs that I get are 250 gallons and contained food grade glycerine. I am still doing research and hope to start building a green house this spring. Even though I am not ready to start putting things together I want to get as much free materials now as I can. As far as I know all IBCs have a steel cage for support. The plastic vessel does not have the structural strenght to be self supporting, especially considering that it is common to see them double stacked for shipment and storage. I found a company about 2 hours away that produces hydite / expanded shale. I think that I can get a good price if I take my pickup and a trailer and haul it myself. I found them through this industry group thttp://www.escsi.org/Default.aspx that has a list of producers. you might want to see if there is someone close to you.

kent

 
Ron Becker said:

are your IBC's 250 gal or more and do they have the cages for support?
 
Ron Becker said:

kent; tks. i live in columbia, Tn. How about you.

Kent Smith said:

IBCs can be found at a lot of manufacturing companies, especially companies that produce food or beverages. My employer buys food grade gycerine, phoshoric acid, and some sweeteners in totes. Since we are big into recycling they let me bring empties home when I want them as long as I agree not to sell them. where are you located?

kent

[Bianca LoBue]

DURA SKRIM? it is pricey...the EPDM liner on watergarden.org does have a great warranty...but black...is that alright?

[Ron Becker]

ya black is good. I'll be checking out watergarden soon. ? I've been looking for a bulkhead fitting for my auto siphen but can't find one, any ideas on fastening the drain pipe to bottom of grow bed? tks ron
 
Bianca LoBue said:

DURA SKRIM? it is pricey...the EPDM liner on watergarden.org does have a great warranty...but black...is that alright?

[Benjamin Udy - Super Genius]

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/4973/Bulkheads I use those bulkheads. They are good quality and fairly priced. Also, they're made of PVC so they're safe for aquaponics system. You should avoid the cheaper ABS plastic bulkheads. It is possible to find HDPE bulkheads but they're just overpriced and unnecessary since the PVC works fine. What's the volume of your grow bed and what is the flow rate? I might be able to help you size an appropriate bulkhead fitting and bell siphon size.

[Alex Veidel]

I like uniseals. They're less expensive than bulkhead fittings, and I haven't had any trouble with leaking yet. Its just a solid rubber ring that forms a water-tight seal when you pass your pipe through it.

http://www.theaquaponicstore.com/UniSeal-1-p/appuw001.htm

[Jon Parr]

DuraSkrim LPDE 20 mil is less than HALF the price of Firestone HDPE 45 mil, less than half the weight (and half the shipping), is white instead of black (yes in matters; you can't see squat in black lined DWC beds, black heats in the sun, white reflects UV), LPDE is safer against leaching, and it doesn't stretch (beds can self support and are much cheaper and faster to build). DuraSkrim is infinitely better than HDPE. I got mine here, http://store.globalplasticsheeting.com/dura-skrim-20-white/ ...call them and chat it up, tell them Jon Parr from Santa Cruz told you to call and the price will be even better. I got 10 rolls (6' x 100') shipped to my door for $2K. 

Uniseals rock. Use them. Even for DuraSkrim.

I have used 2" shower drains from home depot ($3.50) with great success, and they even come with a stainless steel grill. They have a PVC inner portion (that contacts the water), and an ABS outer portion (that doesn't contact water) so should be safe.

[Bianca LoBue]

so can you completely go with uniseals with ur system instead of bulkhead? I have a uniseal for my tank connection but was going with a bulkhead for my media to sump. Can a uniseal replace? 
Jon Parr said:

DuraSkrim LPDE 20 mil is less than HALF the price of Firestone HDPE 45 mil, less than half the weight (and half the shipping), is white instead of black (yes in matters; you can't see squat in black lined DWC beds, black heats in the sun, white reflects UV), LPDE is safer against leaching, and it doesn't stretch (beds can self support and are much cheaper and faster to build). DuraSkrim is infinitely better than HDPE. I got mine here, http://store.globalplasticsheeting.com/dura-skrim-20-white/ ...call them and chat it up, tell them Jon Parr from Santa Cruz told you to call and the price will be even better. I got 10 rolls (6' x 100') shipped to my door for $2K. 

Uniseals rock. Use them. Even for DuraSkrim.

I have used 2" shower drains from home depot ($3.50) with great success, and they even come with a stainless steel grill. They have a PVC inner portion (that contacts the water), and an ABS outer portion (that doesn't contact water) so should be safe.

[Jason Finn]

Does anyone know how the DuraSkrim LPDE 20 mil would hold up in a grow bed with black lava rock as the grow medium??

Has anyone been successful with duraskrim in a media bed with any medium?

[Jon Parr]

Bianca, sorry I completely missed this question. About uniseals and bulkheads, I use whatever I feel best for the particular situation, and none at all if I can help it. Any hole below water line is a potential leak, so consider that when you are designing your plumbing. I very commonly use shower drain flanges as bulkhead fittings. Home Depot has two different models on hand for less than $4 each that recieve 2" PVC pipe. One has a rubber compression fitting, the other has a glued slip fitting. That is hard to beat for 2" pipe, always available, and very versatile. Uniseals can be mounted to duriskrim using a more rigid donut backer, like a piece of blue barrel or an old frisbee. Hydro stores sell barbed bulkhead fitting for 1/2", 3/4", and 1" hose, for $2 each. I have built plenty of systems with no uniseals or bulkheads at all using bridge siphons. Too many variables to make a blanket statement there.


Bianca LoBue said:

so can you completely go with uniseals with ur system instead of bulkhead? I have a uniseal for my tank connection but was going with a bulkhead for my media to sump. Can a uniseal replace? 
Jon Parr said:

DuraSkrim LPDE 20 mil is less than HALF the price of Firestone HDPE 45 mil, less than half the weight (and half the shipping), is white instead of black (yes in matters; you can't see squat in black lined DWC beds, black heats in the sun, white reflects UV), LPDE is safer against leaching, and it doesn't stretch (beds can self support and are much cheaper and faster to build). DuraSkrim is infinitely better than HDPE. I got mine here, http://store.globalplasticsheeting.com/dura-skrim-20-white/ ...call them and chat it up, tell them Jon Parr from Santa Cruz told you to call and the price will be even better. I got 10 rolls (6' x 100') shipped to my door for $2K. 

Uniseals rock. Use them. Even for DuraSkrim.

I have used 2" shower drains from home depot ($3.50) with great success, and they even come with a stainless steel grill. They have a PVC inner portion (that contacts the water), and an ABS outer portion (that doesn't contact water) so should be safe.

[Jon Parr]

I wouldn't recomend it, though I have seen it done. TC uses expanded shale media in her duraskrim growbeds, but even that is risky to me. It is very easy to puncture. I have punctured it from stepping on it with gravel underneath. It has great tear and abrasion resistance, but lousy puncture resistance. If you use it for media beds, I would recomend placing a puncture guard over it before adding media, especially lava. Maybe some filter fabric, or some old election signs, or some poly greenhouse film. Personally, I wouldn't use any media other than char in a duraskrim bed.

Jason Finn said:

Does anyone know how the DuraSkrim LPDE 20 mil would hold up in a grow bed with black lava rock as the grow medium??

Has anyone been successful with duraskrim in a media bed with any medium?

[Bianca LoBue]

Thanks Jon! 

And one more thing...I am having so much trouble with installing my liner. I have a Dura-skrim 20 mil....is it recommended to let it sit out in the sun to loosen? I just find it so stiff and difficult. Unless my schematics are off with my media bed, because when I get to pressing the liner in, the corners are pulling and almost ripping.

Jon Parr said:

Bianca, sorry I completely missed this question. About uniseals and bulkheads, I use whatever I feel best for the particular situation, and none at all if I can help it. Any hole below water line is a potential leak, so consider that when you are designing your plumbing. I very commonly use shower drain flanges as bulkhead fittings. Home Depot has two different models on hand for less than $4 each that recieve 2" PVC pipe. One has a rubber compression fitting, the other has a glued slip fitting. That is hard to beat for 2" pipe, always available, and very versatile. Uniseals can be mounted to duriskrim using a more rigid donut backer, like a piece of blue barrel or an old frisbee. Hydro stores sell barbed bulkhead fitting for 1/2", 3/4", and 1" hose, for $2 each. I have built plenty of systems with no uniseals or bulkheads at all using bridge siphons. Too many variables to make a blanket statement there.


Bianca LoBue said:

so can you completely go with uniseals with ur system instead of bulkhead? I have a uniseal for my tank connection but was going with a bulkhead for my media to sump. Can a uniseal replace? 
Jon Parr said:

DuraSkrim LPDE 20 mil is less than HALF the price of Firestone HDPE 45 mil, less than half the weight (and half the shipping), is white instead of black (yes in matters; you can't see squat in black lined DWC beds, black heats in the sun, white reflects UV), LPDE is safer against leaching, and it doesn't stretch (beds can self support and are much cheaper and faster to build). DuraSkrim is infinitely better than HDPE. I got mine here, http://store.globalplasticsheeting.com/dura-skrim-20-white/ ...call them and chat it up, tell them Jon Parr from Santa Cruz told you to call and the price will be even better. I got 10 rolls (6' x 100') shipped to my door for $2K. 

Uniseals rock. Use them. Even for DuraSkrim.

I have used 2" shower drains from home depot ($3.50) with great success, and they even come with a stainless steel grill. They have a PVC inner portion (that contacts the water), and an ABS outer portion (that doesn't contact water) so should be safe.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Stiff and difficult eh? Yeah, that about describes my first encounter with DuraSkrim liner. The first thing I ever tried lining was a small nursery bed...It looked horrible (I've since re-lined it...just couldn't stand to look at it anymore). After you do it a few times you kinda figure out how to work with it, instead of against it...and then it's not so bad at all...It is a really good liner material though...