Location Location Location?

[Ryan Sala]

If you had a choice to set up AP system anywhere in the US.. Where would it be? Maybe you would want to start a business up like me. Maybe just for yourself.. Im struggling with wether to stay in DFW, and hope that Denton Tx. will have enough green consciences individuals to keep my biz a float. However some of my friends in other states are trying to coax me to go to them. One of those places is Reno NV. I have my doubts.. Inputs? Opinions? 2 cents? Pearls of Wisdom? 

[Chip Pilkington]

For most of us, budget would certainly have to be factored in, but from a pure growing pleasure perspective, I'd farm in Northern California, on or near the coast, probably somewhere between Monterey and Half Moon Bay, mostly because of the amazing, year round growing season. I miss my winter gardens so much living over here....also, the cool breezes from the ocean extend the cool-loving crop seasons a bit into the Summer.

I lived in that area through the late 70's, early 80's and loved it. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've seen a big, beautiful artichoke from that area! 

If only all the people would just go away and the cost of living would come back down to Earth, I think my retirement mini-farm would land in that area. 

 

[Ryan Sala]

I read, or actually saw a video about acompany in CA (Santa Cruz Aquaponics), and they had anticipated a huge profits in their area, and out the starting gate, CA had banned tilapia farming in his county. So I think it was a fresh issue for them at the time. They do have a video on Youtube. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE5kDwvcIRI

Theres another video on there.. but they say they are 6 miles from monterey.. No website, although they say contact us on our website, and their facebook is like a ghosttown. 

Found this 

http://tilapiafarmingathome.com/legal.aspx

BTW, I love Monterey.. went there 3 yrs ago… LOVED IT beautiful nice beach… people only kinda smell. :P

Chip Pilkington said:

For most of us, budget would certainly have to be factored in, but from a pure growing pleasure perspective, I'd farm in Northern California, on or near the coast, probably somewhere between Monterey and Half Moon Bay, mostly because of the amazing, year round growing season. I miss my winter gardens so much living over here....also, the cool breezes from the ocean extend the cool-loving crop seasons a bit into the Summer.

I lived in that area through the late 70's, early 80's and loved it. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've seen a big, beautiful artichoke from that area! 

If only all the people would just go away and the cost of living would come back down to Earth, I think my retirement mini-farm would land in that area. 

 

[Ryan Sala]

@ Carey… So like in the Philippines 1 dollar is like 8 usd.. Hows the USD stretch over in your area?

Carey Ma said:

Well Ryan, most people are satisfied with a salary. I am building an empire. I don't have kids so reinvest every penny into experiments and expansion. I think a 300% growth rate over five- six years is pretty good. Remember, as a technological partner, I only make money when the farms I manage profit above and beyond what they were previously making and I only get 30% of that. I think I should be able to level off in two to three years. At that time I expect to be able to start my institute.

[Carey Ma]

The exchange rate is around six to one or one  USD = six Ren Men Bi (chinese yen). So, I have to make six times as much before I can retire back home.

[Chip Pilkington]

I guess I wasn't thinking commercial AP - I was thinking hobby/home use.

If commercial AP is your goal, I believe it will fail equally well in most any location.

Good luck!

[RupertofOZ]

Ryan Sala said:

I read, or actually saw a video about acompany in CA (Santa Cruz Aquaponics), and they had anticipated a huge profits in their area, and out the starting gate

 

Santa Cruz have shut their doors... for all sorts of financial reasons... including, by their own admissions... over-estimating production... over-estimating the market... and underestimating the capital requirements...

[Jon Parr]

You just described my place, Chip. And you're right on the money, literally, with it being bloody expensive to live here. It is dropping though, I think median homes are below $500K now. 

Chip Pilkington said:

For most of us, budget would certainly have to be factored in, but from a pure growing pleasure perspective, I'd farm in Northern California, on or near the coast, probably somewhere between Monterey and Half Moon Bay, mostly because of the amazing, year round growing season. I miss my winter gardens so much living over here....also, the cool breezes from the ocean extend the cool-loving crop seasons a bit into the Summer.

I lived in that area through the late 70's, early 80's and loved it. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've seen a big, beautiful artichoke from that area! 

If only all the people would just go away and the cost of living would come back down to Earth, I think my retirement mini-farm would land in that area. 

 

[Ryan Sala]

I emailed the former owner, and he replied! Apparantly it was not all just as you say.. Other "elements" were involved, including not too loyal co investor. He asked for me not to expand any further than this statement if I were to relay it to others. 

RupertofOZ said:

Ryan Sala said:

I read, or actually saw a video about acompany in CA (Santa Cruz Aquaponics), and they had anticipated a huge profits in their area, and out the starting gate

 

Santa Cruz have shut their doors... for all sorts of financial reasons... including, by their own admissions... over-estimating production... over-estimating the market... and underestimating the capital requirements...

[Ryan Sala]

Actually it wont fail.. Check this company out. 

http://www.herbanfarms.com/

81 clients in 3 states, and they only sell basil. Also I personally know a gent who has been contracted by 3rd world govts to install aquaponics systems. :)

Another thing to consider is that most people who are involved in Aquaponics are doing it "solo", and dont have the capital to start out a legit company. One person can only do so much. Thats why I have been building my contacts for years. A strong support system is essential in such unchartered waters. Other ways I have planned to combat the failure of an commercial aquaponics system is...

1. Proper Location.. located :P (several farmers markets exists in my area, as well as a 5 square mile swap meet that is open 8 months out of the year and not to mention the grocers, and restaurants.) 

2. Acquired - support from..a marine biologist, a member of a organics farming board in my locale, several types of engineers, electrician, plumber, and more :)

3. The land we purchase was cheap... were talking house barn shed pond on 10 acres for 180k 

4. We have had our targets on grants for any sort of related topics involved in farming.

5. More importantly we are not putting all our eggs in one basket.. Meaning... were not just doing aquqaponics. We are diversifying our property to have more than just that. We will also have standard farming, bees, composting, and worm farming, and we will be utilizing our stables to board horses for clients. As well as having solar and wind power, which will not only cut costs for our own operation, but we will also be pumping power back onto the local grid. And there is a nice secret weapon that I have that will be a very unorthodox income supplement, but it will work, because Ive been doing it for years now and its been keeping me financially afloat. 

Another thing to consider

Chip Pilkington said:

I guess I wasn't thinking commercial AP - I was thinking hobby/home use.

If commercial AP is your goal, I believe it will fail equally well in most any location.

Good luck!

[Chip Pilkington]

Very good Ryan - I wish you the best of luck.

When you posted, you specifically said an "AP" business and that you were seeking a suitable location. "AP" proper, does not seem to be doing so well on it's own in the real world. It's been debated to death over at least 4 forums that I belong to and if there is a common theme amongst them all, it's that diversity and merging multiple technologies is the only hope of viability in an AP-related business. AP itself is a fine hobby, but not much more than that.

As to other AP operations, overhead appears to be the big killer. Without some method of subsidizing the business (sounds like you're targeting grants, etc.) or at a minimum, free or very cheap labor, it would be a tough row to hoe. Through my years of experience both owning and managing businesses, I would recommend caution going into a venture requiring either private or gov't assistance to keep the doors open. Remember that much of the AP related business today relies on retail sales of kits and other products, as well as training and technical support to generate revenue. This might be something you're considering also.

Hopefully you've done your homework and of course, it's your money. You threw the topic up on the board - I'm not trying to shoot holes in your dream....I just sincerely hate to see good people throw away their nest egg or a significant amount of money on something not properly vetted out. I looked long and hard at the prospects, did my homework and decided to steer clear of this one. Objectivity and diverse thinking is what we both give and receive from these forums, right?

[Ryan Sala]

You seemed to have amassed a knowledge base regarding AP, and I humbly acknowledge that. I do wonder what overhead are you speaking of? Like 90% of all AP systems Ive seen are comprised of extreme low tech, almost free items depending on where you hail from. For instance: Tops around here I can get a 329 gallon tote for 60.00.. Regularly there are hot tubs given away.. 3 today in the area. Building materials is as common as and as abundant as regular trash. Now commercially, your only gona get as much as you can grind out. So expansion is always and will always be a factor. Ive known form the get go that busting out with a 10k sq ft facility, and hoping at the end of my first harvest that someone will buy all my wares is a foolhardy thought process. Ill leave it at that. Its too bad your overseas. If you were closer Id invite ya for tea sometimes. Curtailing AP to a niche market is more than just work. Its an art, and requires an insight more than just numbers. It requires involvement in ones community. Spinning a lifestyle as a sales point to someone rather than just hey this is organic. Ive got so many angles its boggling. twade secwets :P  Now I know its not and never will be the grocers chain that is advertised on the tele. Nor would I want it to be that way. I for instance pay a vege coop 1200 a year to buy whats in season. I go and pick up a plastic bin of my veges on a weekly basis. The farmer brown that I pay has over 60 clients. Now standard farming.. now thats some crappy overhead. If a regular farmer can do it.. then an AP farmer can too. Im convinced because Ive already seen successes for someone to say that AP is a failed venture, well they just lacked. period. May have not been their fault, but its the same as any other business. You succeed and adapt, or you fail... Lets have some vision! We are at the infancy of a new era of farming yo.... see the economies of the world? How they teeter on the verge of chaos over the stock market? something invisible can cause a meltdown. Well people will always need to eat dude. And when they have destroyed what land they have and fished the seas to extinction then AP will pick up form there. Oh and I don't have time for hobbies. :) 

[Glenn]

This topic has reminded me of this old farmer's almanac saying. 

 

"It's better to be proud of a small garden than to be frustrated by a big one! "