Providing Lighting 24 hours.

[Teh Teong Chian]

Hi,

 

I have an aquaponic system in my backyard and normally we would turn on the backyard lights at night for safety reason. Hence this created a 24 hours lighting for my plants and would like to know anything wrong with that?

 

thanks

[Matt Burns]

I was trying to find such a list.......Do most veggies, (that have a fruit) flower based on duration (days) and not day length?

[TCLynx]

Onions are responsive to day length for bulbing.  You have to be sure to find the right variety with the correct day length characteristic for your latitude if you want them to bulb up for you.

I know of many flowers that respond to light/dark cycles to figure out when to flower.  Morning glories, moon flowers, daylillies.  And many flowers open during the day and close at night while some others do the opposite and yet others don't seem to care.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Matt...if your into lighting/costs vs. efficiency Google or otherwise check out how to ODNO (OverDriveNormalOperation), the waaay cheaper T-8's (they seem to be the sweet spot of the ODNO fluoro realm). Basically you drive a tube with a ballast (HAS to be electronic NOT magnetic) that was meant to operate either 2 (x2ODNO) or 4(x4ODNO) tubes by connecting the 'extra' leads. Cheaper than T-5HO, and the T-8's actually become more efficient (lumens/Watts) as you overdrive them. They also will run a little hotter (obviously) but are still no where near as hot as T-5HO's...only thing to really worry about is the early spectral shift, but you'll be replacing them in 6 months anyways...cool stuff.

Right now I'm keen on this PL-L rig. Cheaper than T-8's even, but with output like T-5HO's...I'm convinced that a stealth grow may be the perfect gig for these pups...

I've tested them out with a couple of different lettuce, spinach, and now hot peppers. There's a running discussion on them if you're interested...

Most of that stuff (nutes) are a big rip off like Petar says. You would be surprised by the 'killer nutes' you can make just with things you probably have in your house/yard/fridge/cleaning supply cupboard/tap water/own body and maybe a bit of Maxi-crop... If you really like growing your own pot (and most people who grow pot do really seem to get into the growing of it too) I'd suggest getting a couple of really good books on soiless culture (not the little how-to 50-60 page PDF's, but real books on the chemistry of hydroponics) to get a good handle on the chemistry side of things...applying the knowledge gained should pay off in dividends. (and besides, it's just plain fun) I will never buy pre-made nutes again (some mineral salts here and there maybe...but I'm really liking the home-made organic-hydro thing right now :)

Smart lighting regime BTW...I think we both agree that running 1000 Watt HID's to grow lettuce isn't worth the electricity.

[Matt Burns]

Nice info.  It sounds like you know more about lighting than I do at the moment. I have not had time to mess around like you have or the knowledge to start with.  I have had my aquaponics setup going for three weeks now so I am just in the starting phase. I never grew cannabis hydroponically though. I started with a dirt / soiless mixture and now I use promix, which I like alot.   Looks like we have a lot of smart people on this website. 

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Matt, I'm certainly no 'expert'. Probably just have had more time here on the planet than you :) and I love to tinker and have had the good fortune to have a background (education/work) that has allowed me to.

There are many wonderful and knowledgeable people on this site. Petar has a really good suggestion. Here is another one that I am keen on at the moment...

Jones, J. Benton, 1930–
Hydroponics : a practical guide for the soilless grower / J. Benton Jones, Jr. — 2nd ed.
p. cm.
Includes bibliographical references and index.
ISBN 0-8493-3167-6 (alk. paper)
1. Hydroponics. I. Title.
SB126 .5 .J65 2005

Also, you might want to check out the BYAP site if you haven't already. It's a bit  different than this forum and full of good stuff on AP.

Matt Burns said:

Nice info.  It sounds like you know more about lighting than I do at the moment. I have not had time to mess around like you have or the knowledge to start with.  I have had my aquaponics setup going for three weeks now so I am just in the starting phase. I never grew cannabis hydroponically though. I started with a dirt / soiless mixture and now I use promix, which I like alot.   Looks like we have a lot of smart people on this website. 

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Yes, it seems to be a sort of survival mechanism brought on by stressful conditions, a female will actually shift poles to ensure pollination. Kind of weird? Do you think that the 'gas the lantern trick' is really stressful enough (providing that Matt has taken care of all other aspects of the plants care, within reason) to induce such a thing? I mean really he's just keeping some (messenger) mRNA from producing the transcription factor that is supposed to turn on a couple of genes to induce flowering. That in and of itself may not be all that stressful (within reason again). Coupled with other stresses like water, or nute deficiencies, out of whack temps etc...I'm guessing it wouldn't be good? IDK, just a thought...

[Matt Sandoval]

It only takes a pinhole of light entering your dark environment and you run the risk of inducing an unstable plant.

Using the gas lantern to interrupt the dark cycle could possibly stress an unstable plant and pop a male. You wont even realize it until its too late.A 'true female' will take any stress you can dish out and it will not turn. You would have to use a silver solution to make it turn into a male

Using the supplemental lighting(gas lantern) to extend the photo period works.

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Yes, it seems to be a sort of survival mechanism brought on by stressful conditions, a female will actually shift poles to ensure pollination. Kind of weird? Do you think that the 'gas the lantern trick' is really stressful enough (providing that Matt has taken care of all other aspects of the plants care, within reason) to induce such a thing? I mean really he's just keeping some (messenger) mRNA from producing the transcription factor that is supposed to turn on a couple of genes to induce flowering. That in and of itself may not be all that stressful (within reason again). Coupled with other stresses like water, or nute deficiencies, out of whack temps etc...I'm guessing it wouldn't be good? IDK, just a thought...

[Vlad Jovanovic]

I thought that that whole 'feminized seed' thing was a fad that had passed long ago? Didn't realize people were still really doing that. I don't grow cannibis, but have lived in Holland, and still visit when I can. I have some older dutch friends who do grow on a pretty serious level and have legal and registered operations. They seem to stay on top of things pretty well in that realm... 

Cloning a regular, or 'true' as you call them, genetically stable female is the only the only way to go, If you are into that sort of thing.

The biggest problems I have these days is when some of my genetically unstable purple basil reverts to green :) Not quite as frustrating as "Herman" but...  

[Jon Parr]

Vlad, maybe my imagination, but it seems like my plants are healthier with a substantial dark cycle. No science there, just gut feeling and observation. BTW, my pl-l ballasts came in, still waiting on the bulbs. I am going to build a base for my aquarium to house the ballast, so lost heat will dub as FT heater.

Peter, I know you have a gorgeous hydro tomato grow at the campus, primarily to supply a winter crop. Do you use any lighting or heat to maintain flowering thru the winter? I have ripe tomatoes and peppers on the vine right now, but I do have a single T8 timed in a 10' x 18' room to keep summer hours. Is that needed? And did you ever get proper fish permits? I haven't been up there since summer, maybe I'll swing by this week.

Matt, I agree that 11/5.5/1/5.5 is the most efficient use of wattage to stay in veg, and length of night determines flowering, not length of day. Fancy timers can allow the 'day's' to get shorter throughout the grow, keeping night at twelve hours. For instance, first week 12 light/12 dark, second week 11/12, saving 7 hours in the week. Third week 10/12, saving 14 hours, and so on, getting your 8 weeks done in 7. Herman may be a problem, dunno, I just read a lot, and it's so dang interesting what pot growers have done for the ag world.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Jon, that may or may not be your imagination, and you should probably follow those gut feelings based on observation of your particular situation. I don't want to sound like the poster boy for the local electric company, but I simply can not discard what I've been taught, read in botony textbooks, and later proved to myself in 'real-world experiments'. A lot of this can just be chalked up to personal preference, and that's totally cool, but even cannabis, as a C3 plant has absolutely no need for a dark, or rest period while in veg. A really easy experiment would be to take some clones all from the same mother of course, put half in a cloner with 12/12 or 16/8 or whatever, put the other half in a cloner and give them light 24/7...then compare root mass. The difference is striking, 24/7 group had almost double the root mass. Still I'm not advocating 24/7 lights as necessary, just that in a lot of plants, during veg it is not harmful, as someone had said. That's really all I was trying to say. (That and that I don't agree with the statement that 'a lot of growth occurs at night'. Maybe a little stretch, but that's about it, and definitely no root growth that I've ever been able to detect. Though I should add that sometimes I too, feel 'the need' to give them some 'sleepy-time'... 4 hours then increasing to 6 hours (even 8 depending) once they settle into a good veg. But, I believe that is just me projecting human percepts onto them (and saving electricity). Which I don't mind. (Next I'll be giving them coffee breaks and two weeks vacation a year :)  Sheesh...I feel like we've beat this one to death :)    Anyhows...

Glad to hear your ballasts came in...take some pics of what you end up doing with them. It seems like they are not giving off as much heat as they were at first, but I did not measure, so I have nothing to compare with now. (Kinda stupid since the both the DHT11 temp probe as well as the low/high thermometer were both right there the whole time)?

But that sounds like a great way to use some of that free heat.

[Jon Parr]

I wasn't calling BS on you Vlad, I respect your contributions here greatly, and we think alike. I always start my seedlings of all types with 24hr light. And the truth is I'm a cheapskate and electricity here is pricey. We have only electricity, no gas here, and a family of seven plus my granite slab fabrication business which puts us in the highest price bracket. It's like $.44 per Kwh, as in $1200 per month for my total. So fish tank heaters and growlights are a luxury that comes with a penalty. Maybe my bias is what convinces me that my plants are happier in the dark. :P

The 220 watt ballasts state 90% on them, I'm assuming this means 90% of input power goes out as electricity. So that leaves 22 watts of heat to supply a 35 gallon FT, should be about right. Plus aquarium heaters don't last in AP, not sure why. At least half of them fail in a year, all of them in two years, of several different brands including the high-end 400 watt titanium ones. I think light ballasts will be a more reliable heat source, and keep an aquarium heater in there too to stabilize temp and take over during the dark.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Wow...Jesus...Jon, in no way did I take your post in that way...I'm often told (well by my wife anyways) that I have poor communication skills, so I apologize if my written post seemed that way, as that was definitely NOT what was going on in my head...

Holy crap! My electricity here (well at least between the hours of midnight and 8:00am) is almost 10 times less expensive than yours. So of course both my plants (and therefore myself to some extent, have gotten "out of phase" with "natrual circadian rhythms...hehe)... Even during 'peak hours' is still much less...

Good to know about those heaters, I've been mulling over which 1,800-2,400Watt titanium heater to buy before next winter (or otherwise solve that problem). The heaters seemed like the 'easy' way out...but man-o-man, that's a lot of juice...and if they tend to fail quickly in AP apps, I'd sure like to know more about that... 

22 Watts sounds right...of course you'll probably lose a bit in the transfer depending...but still, not bad...