Senate Wants to Give President Right to use military to imprison US citizens Without Charge or Trial

[Danny Daniel]

I was bored so i thought i would open a interesting discussion in the off topic section :).

 

 

I was reading around and i found this interesting Bill

For those who want to see it most links are sources to where i found it and the bill should be in there.

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr6523enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr6523...

http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/aclu_letter_to_sjc_on_ndaa.pdf

 

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/senators-demand-military...

 

(ALL PDF FILES)

 

 

For those who dont want to go through the PDF. files, It just the military will have the right to lock you up for no reason what so ever(martial law).

 

Do you think they should pass this bill?

 

How would you feel if it does pass, would you still live in the US?

 

Also how do you feel about what is going on in the world today Do you think WW3 is just around the corner?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eric Warwick]

They're synonyms. To be clear giving the right to detain individuals(anyone)without trial is a henious crime against humanity and the Constitution which should describe what our country should be. If it enumerates a right then don't trample it. However because it says  
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States..." Some liberties can be taken away, like murder. However when dealing with water shortages it gets a bit murky. I happen to believe that the right to lawn is not unalienable. The right to garden is unalienable, because it has to deal with the right to feed thyself.
Danny Daniel said:

whats the difference between  liberties and freedom?
Eric Warwick said:

Sure we have lost liberties but are we more or less free? I say yes. I believe that we should extend liberty to at least what it was before the Patriot Act, and beyond. However, some things necessary to the general welfare can sometimes override some liberties like grass lawns.

[Danny Daniel]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but for that to work right the government has to be for the people not the other way around. Today when you see a police officer you feel more afraid then safe,Even when you have not done anything wrong.if the people with just the power to enforce the law can become very power hungry and do some disturbing and sick things, think of what types of things the people that make the law do. How there so called water shortages are not just another way to feed there greed, like how Enron was doing with the electricity shortages we where having. I don't even know that the air that i breath is safe for me, after the nuclear plants blew up in japan and all that radiation came this way, EPA raised the levels of what the safe amount of radiation is by a "1000 folds" as said in the article

Like i said i agree with you, but only if this government was really fair and honest, then yes America would have real freedom

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and greed of the private bankers; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States..."   

  For Mayer Amschel Rothscild did say  "Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws"

 

if you ask me , 9/11 we traded what bit of  freedom we had for stability with the patriot act and much more.

[Wayne]

Just a response from the feds concerned about events like these.

http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/11/14/u-s-sheriffs-rise-up-agains...

 

No it should not pass, but the patriot act already gives the executive branch these powers. It allows for the suspension on the U.S. Constitution so Posse Comitatus is ignored, regulations governing search and seizure ignored, right to trail ignored and basically every other right guaranteed by the constitution.

 

Will I stay in the US? Until I die.

 

WW3 is always just a moment away.

[David Waite]

I think when an American citizen allies with the  enemy  terrorists or not they give up their rights. They commit treason at that point and fall under the rules of war. We should deal with them like we did back in WWII. They were shot or incarcerated. Are we losing our rights a little at a time. I agree and we should fight for those with everything we have. Just dont ask me to feel sorry for some asshole who joins Osama's ranks and wants to be treated like a common criminal. That being said I do feel that a civilian body should be the ones who determine who is a traitor based on evidence and not the military itself. I think the latest cleric Alwaki was a prime candidate for assasination due to the mountain of video he produced asking his followers to slaughter us. He was a traitor and did not belong in the civil court system. Just my thoughts.

[Eric Warwick]

I don't think anyone should be treated in that way. However you make a valid point.

David Waite said:

I think when an American citizen allies with the  enemy  terrorists or not they give up their rights. They commit treason at that point and fall under the rules of war. We should deal with them like we did back in WWII. They were shot or incarcerated. Are we losing our rights a little at a time. I agree and we should fight for those with everything we have. Just dont ask me to feel sorry for some asshole who joins Osama's ranks and wants to be treated like a common criminal. That being said I do feel that a civilian body should be the ones who determine who is a traitor based on evidence and not the military itself. I think the latest cleric Alwaki was a prime candidate for assasination due to the mountain of video he produced asking his followers to slaughter us. He was a traitor and did not belong in the civil court system. Just my thoughts.

[Danny Daniel]

Your right, citizen or not a traitor is a traitor. when these laws are used correctly it works very good and a lot of people can be protected,like Erik i feel no man has to right to take another mans life so im more against war and for peace but if war comes to my door step i wouldn't hesitate for 1 second. but to be back on topic do you not think that after they get these new laws , which they say is for our own good then can be used against us.do you not think it is possible for some of these stories to be fabricated or  fear mongering so they can get new laws in? has it not been done before?

 

For example the patriot act it was put in place for our protection now that we are safe, they are using it to monitor us. Not like they weren't already.

 

Thanks for all the new info everyone this is my favorite way to learn :), opens up your mind to a whole different perceptive of looking at things in life, and its fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

David Waite said:

I think when an American citizen allies with the  enemy  terrorists or not they give up their rights. They commit treason at that point and fall under the rules of war. We should deal with them like we did back in WWII. They were shot or incarcerated. Are we losing our rights a little at a time. I agree and we should fight for those with everything we have. Just dont ask me to feel sorry for some asshole who joins Osama's ranks and wants to be treated like a common criminal. That being said I do feel that a civilian body should be the ones who determine who is a traitor based on evidence and not the military itself. I think the latest cleric Alwaki was a prime candidate for assasination due to the mountain of video he produced asking his followers to slaughter us. He was a traitor and did not belong in the civil court system. Just my thoughts.

[David Waite]

I don't trust our government at all when it comes to politics. I can't pull up any stories of fabricated terrorists either. Do I think the government wants to control us you bet. I struggle with giving them the power to monitor these wack jobs vs making them run into court every time the nut job buys a new disposable phone. I will say their track record of 41 intercepted camel shaggers to no foreign born successful attacks since 911 gives me some hope of the laws are working. I spent 8 years in the military so I know the government lies to its citizens. I also know the military is full of dedicated men and women who feel just like us. I personally think they have enough tools to keep us safe, BUT..............I dont work in their field and tend to trust them when they ask for more tools to track these nut jobs. So you have just read the ramblings of a confused citizen. heehe.

 

Danny Daniel said:

Your right, citizen or not a traitor is a traitor. when these laws are used correctly it works very good and a lot of people can be protected,like Erik i feel no man has to right to take another mans life so im more against war and for peace but if war comes to my door step i wouldn't hesitate for 1 second. but to be back on topic do you not think that after they get these new laws , which they say is for our own good then can be used against us.do you not think it is possible for some of these stories to be fabricated or  fear mongering so they can get new laws in? has it not been done before?

 

For example the patriot act it was put in place for our protection now that we are safe, they are using it to monitor us. Not like they weren't already.

 

Thanks for all the new info everyone this is my favorite way to learn, opens up your mind to a whole different perceptive of looking at things in life, and its fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

David Waite said:

I think when an American citizen allies with the  enemy  terrorists or not they give up their rights. They commit treason at that point and fall under the rules of war. We should deal with them like we did back in WWII. They were shot or incarcerated. Are we losing our rights a little at a time. I agree and we should fight for those with everything we have. Just dont ask me to feel sorry for some asshole who joins Osama's ranks and wants to be treated like a common criminal. That being said I do feel that a civilian body should be the ones who determine who is a traitor based on evidence and not the military itself. I think the latest cleric Alwaki was a prime candidate for assasination due to the mountain of video he produced asking his followers to slaughter us. He was a traitor and did not belong in the civil court system. Just my thoughts.

[Carey Ma]

I am in total distrust of our Nazi government.... that's one big reason I am in communist China. I have so much more freedom here than back home.

Like Rome; the dream that was America is no more; just a mere illusion of what it is suppose to be.

 

I pray for the day Americans stand up and change the wrongs. However, I know that as long as we run on Capitalist principles, this is just fantasy. As an ecolonomists, I strive for sustainability in order to devoid the world of both Communism and Capitalism, using AP as my tool.

[Danny Daniel]

There are plenty of stories that have been fabricated there not going to come out and tell us, it will be denied till the end. Just recently  USA said it had found some person that was going to kill some saudia arabia prince i think, then they tried to blame it on iran and they say that they got this info from an informant that was working with the mexican cartel. makes for more reason to attack iran and give people the idea that iran is a bad bad person.

 another very big thing that happen was 9/11 now everyone has there stories and sides to this, but whatever it is there is sooo much lies in what really happen that we will probably never know the truth.

 

i respect and give much thanks to all the men and women out serving protecting us so we can sleep peacefully at nights.

 

 

Also check this video out, it is a Human resources video with real footage its kind of hard video to watch , so its not for the faint of hearts consider this a warning,but it is verrrrrryy scary.

http://metanoia-films.org/hr_watchonline.php

David Waite said:

I don't trust our government at all when it comes to politics. I can't pull up any stories of fabricated terrorists either. Do I think the government wants to control us you bet. I struggle with giving them the power to monitor these wack jobs vs making them run into court every time the nut job buys a new disposable phone. I will say their track record of 41 intercepted camel shaggers to no foreign born successful attacks since 911 gives me some hope of the laws are working. I spent 8 years in the military so I know the government lies to its citizens. I also know the military is full of dedicated men and women who feel just like us. I personally think they have enough tools to keep us safe, BUT..............I dont work in their field and tend to trust them when they ask for more tools to track these nut jobs. So you have just read the ramblings of a confused citizen. heehe.

 

[Danny Daniel]

Carey Ma said:

I am in total distrust of our Nazi government.... that's one big reason I am in communist China. I have so much more freedom here than back home.

Like Rome; the dream that was America is no more; just a mere illusion of what it is suppose to be.

 

I pray for the day Americans stand up and change the wrongs. However, I know that as long as we run on Capitalist principles, this is just fantasy. As an ecolonomists, I strive for sustainability in order to devoid the world of both Communism and Capitalism, using AP as my tool.

 

More power to you :), your doing a very big thing i wish you the best of luck. Im always open to helping anyway i can.

[Danny Daniel]

Just wanted to give an update about this law and how we mostly thought it would not pass,but it now it looks like it will pass because obama was the one who requested this law in the first place.

so if this passes it means that we all lose our right to trial, and can be imprisoned for life without any proof or any reason. 

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Well on the plus side, if this passes maybe that means they can cut down on the assassinations...(see Judi Bari, Darryl Cherney, Earth First! etc...) Which would be some progress after all.