Aquaponics Association Charter

[Sylvia Bernstein]

I'm starting this forum topic for anyone who is interested in talking about the new Aquaponics Association.  While nothing will be set in stone when we officially adopt the Charter at the Conference on Sept 16, we'd like to get it as close to representative of what the aquaponics community is hoping for by that time.

If you go to the page that we've set up on the Association site (click here) you can download the Charter and Organizational structure, and answer some questions about your constructive feedback and how can we give you value for your membership dues.  Please take the survey!

Feel free to ask any questions about what we are doing here - the Organizing Committee (myself, Gina Cavaliero, Murray Hallam and Wayne Hall) is an open book, and everyone is a member in this community site.  We are 100% committed to creating an organization that will serve aquaponics well...although we obviously won't be able to do everything right out of the gate, nor will we be able to make everyone happy.  

I'd like to start the discussion rolling by asking a question  that I asked on Murray's forum this morning - how can we bring value to both Individual Members and Commercial members for their dues?  We've listed several things we could do on the survey linked above.  What are we missing?  What sounds great?

[Wayne Hall]

I most whole heartily agree "Can't we all just get along!"

Abdul Aleem Shekhani said:

So in summation: "C'mooon, can't we all just get along?" 

[Vlad Jovanovic]

I really cannot fathom what possible benefits there would be for someone in a position such as myself…In a small politically isolated country where there is not a single backyarder nor commercial aquaponics grower anywhere to be found.

 Also, I have an intrinsic aversion towards any organizational structures with hierarchies, laws, by-laws, rules etc…Especially those that lay claim to altruistic, “for the good of all motivations, while in reality they generally end up benefiting only a small few, who are usually at the top, and have vested financial interests at stake. That just seems to be the way of the world…And that probably won’t change anytime soon. (None of this is a reference to any specific person, American, Ausie or otherwise).

In spite of all this, I feel that such an association is needed, and that such an association could do much good. (Especially in the U.S)… and should be given a chance at life. And that you ‘have to start somewhere', right?

“What the heck, I’ll give it a try” as Gina says, and see where it goes, or rather where she, Sylvia, Murray, Wayne and all involved will take it…

I’m sure that the charter will be amended, that it will evolve, grow and change as more and more productive input is received from members of this community (and as some of the initial bickering gives way to more constructive criticisms). I am also sure that any results will be far from instant or overnight. This “beast” as some have referred to it, is more like an embryo, and I for one would like to see what it grows to be…

And Gina, as far as bang for the buck goes...since I highly doubt that you will right away be in a position to lobby the government and educate the political class, a "The Association" coffee mug will do :)

P.S The “elected once for life” bits are really kind of creepy…  

[TCLynx]

The situation about trustees, I can see where some might object to the For life or until they resign thing but the main point of the trustees isn't that they hold power but that some entity needs to have the "bank account" so to speak.  You don't want to have to close and re-open all accounts and transfer all real and intangible property for the association every year when elections happen.  Hence why you might have the property held in trust for an association.

 

And the "elected for life" bit shouldn't seem so creepy, it's meant more like "professor emeritus" So if some one gets elected "Chairman emeritus for life"  They are no longer actually the chairman since when this happens a New Chairman gets elected.  At least that is the read I got from it.  Truth is, I'm not sure such language is really required at this point.  Is there anyone who really feels we need to retire officers and give them a title for life in the association yet?  But no, I don't believe that language is meant to actually elect some one to any office of real power for life, it is more a title of prestige for when it's time to let some one step aside gracefully and allow someone new to take office without having to be defeated in an election or resign or turn down a nomination.

 

Biggest issue I see (and one that I did remark on through the charter web site comment forms) is time and getting people to attend meetings for branches and chapters and the annual Conference.  It wasn't really stated too explicitly but there seemed to be indications that officers of branches and chapters who didn't manage to fulfill their obligations of attending and running the executive meetings and general membership meetings would be "in trouble?" I have experience with other types of associations where the membership is much greater and in some places not a long drive to attend a meeting and for many people it has a major direct impact on their WORK, and it is still difficult to get a quorum to show up for meetings and even harder to get anything done.

 

Now I personally hope this gets going to the point that the Chapter and branch structure becomes useful but I think here at  the beginning, we might want to figure out some way for the thing to function without needing all the layers to begin with.

 

I'm a bit confused as to how we are supposed to join if it is the branch that takes the dues and then pays them up to the chapter/international but the branch can't exist till there are at least three members in good standing to create the branch?

How is this supposed to start?  How do we become members in the first place before there are any Chapters or branches formed and how will business be conducted until those chapters and branches are formed?

 

When will the first membership fees or dues be assessed? 

 

And if the association's fiscal year goes from Jan 1-Dec 31 And if people are expected to pay before they can vote here in September on the charter, well I expect the first dues which would cover 3 1/2 months should be reduced.  (Then again, the annual $45 membership fee for an individual is not very high and will probably have great trouble spreading far enough to cover association expenses through the initial start up.)

 

Hay everyone, keep in mind all this time these authors have already spent and will spend in the next several months, they are not getting paid for it and I doubt they are expecting to get paid for it.  They are all probably spending out of pocket to cover the expenses of it all too with no guarantee that the association will get off the ground nor any expectation that any of them will get any sort of relief from future expenses in running the association.  Heck, no guarantee that any of them get elected either so they may have to put forth huge amounts of effort, money, time, and pay their own membership fees.  Thank you guys for all the effort you have already put in and will put in.  I've served on committees before I know how thankless it can be.

[Wayne Hall]

TCLynx:

I can only speak for myself, however I am sure that everyone who has been involved will probably agree, we appreciate your very kind words and for those of us who have served in other organizations we know how very thankless it can be, but its the passion which drives us.

 

It is the intention that membership dues be prorated accordingly, and if there is no branch and/or chapter established for a particular area, then dues would be paid to a catch-all "Chapter-at-Large".

 

I know this may seem strange but we did consider the fact that there may not be a branch or chapter for dues to be paid to, so if anyone has a better idea, we are all ears.

 

So far is has been very rewarding the response we have gotten from persons who are interested in participating, in some form or another, and as such makes it the effort of it all worthwhile.

 

Again Thanks.

[TCLynx]

So here at start up as everyone is probably going to start out in the "chapter at large" (since there can't be any branches until at least three months after people have joined)

 

How will the structure work for voting since there won't yet be any delegates from the branches to do the voting on the chapter level and therefore no one on the chapter level to be on the board and vote for the international officers.

 

Will we be starting out where the actual members on the base level get to directly vote for the initial officers and so forth?

 

If some one joins the Chapter at large, later after this initial start up, how do they get to vote if they don't have a branch to represent them to the chapter and therefore up to the international?

 

At a later date when there are chapters and branches around more of the world.  What if some branch doesn't want to accept membership from some one in their area?  Will that individual still be able to join the association through the chapter at large?  (I don't know if this is likely to be an issue but I'm currently a member in an organization where the membership of a local votes on if they will allow a new member in and people who can't get membership in a particular local have something like a "chapter at large" they can join instead.)

 

Basically, will there be any voice/vote for the orphans without a branch?

[Tom McLemore]

In my passed experience the beginning of an organization went something like this:

1. Association is formed by like minded people. All present and recorded at the opening session decide the function and reason for the Association.

2. A Charter is drafted and accepted by the body and then dues to support that charter, function, and reason are set and collected. If you fail to pay your dues then you are assumed to not be a member of the Association and no longer have voting rights.

3. Then, if the need arises, the body is split into functioning branches as necessary. (The point being if you only have twenty members you probably don't need fifty branches). Now that may not be the case with this association, I certainly hope not anyway. 

 

That is just an example of my experience with associations and such. I am not by any means suggesting that this needs to go that way. I trust that the founders already have a system for the beginning in mind and have not completely expressed it here in this forum. Can't really say that I blame them seeing the punishment they have taken her already.

 

I also understand the need to do the ground work (i.e.write a charter before the first meeting) to help move things along. And mind you the body has not accepted the charter as written, other wise no one could vote for at least three months. I can only assume that the mechanics to the beginning of the association would be spelled out at the first association meeting scheduled to take place after the conference.  That is why I plan to attend. So I can ask questions face to face instead of in this forum where words are sometimes misunderstood. I would encourage everyone who has questions about the beginnings of this association to show up at the meeting or have someone you trust show up and take notes. Then the authors won't be as frustrated and the inquiring minds won't be misunderstood.

 

Just my two cents worth,

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

[Kou]

I love the idea, but when time permits I'll read more and let you guys know what my input is.

[TCLynx]

I fear right there may be one of the biggest Frustrations of the people who freaked out upon hearing that the association had morphed into international intentions.  Because of the short notice there is no way they can afford to get here for the meeting in order to be present to vote and debate the issues in person and being they are in another country, they may not feel they have anyone they trust enough to send in their stead to take those notes.  And I can understand why they find this a bit upsetting.

 

Now I hope the association can find some means to make long distance e-meetings feasible because few aquaponic farmers and even fewer hobbyists are likely to be either willing or able to afford to take the time/money to travel to lots of long distance meetings.  Lets face it, you start up a new commercial aquaponic farm, you may not get to leave for much more than half a 24 hour period without risking your entire season's crop and investment, let alone be able to attend the conferences unless they happen to be near by.  You don't get that chance until you have a well trained farm manager/assistant to cover things while you are away.  Lets face it, raising livestock means you don't get to go on lots of holidays without worrying about the animals.  (I take a big risk with my systems every time I leave for work but luckily my systems are not yet really commercial and they are definitely not yet my lively hood.  I have come home to a tank full of dead fish before and it really sucks.  On a backyard scale one can get away with simply not feeding the fish for most short holidays and just have a neighbor come by to make sure the pumps are working and that there are no dead fish in need of removal.  That doesn't work as well for a commercial operation that needs a fairly steady consistent supply of nutrients and harvest/planting of crops weekly as well as pest/disease management.)

[Raychel A Watkins]

It couldn't have been said better TC.  When you have animals you are tied to them and can not have long trips.  I am taking a great risk coming to your state.  I am going to leave my son in law in charge but he is not that educated in aquaponics.  I have a new WWOOFer coming Wed I hope I can get him trained in 2 weeks.  It is not fair to the animal even if it is just a fish.

Maybe the chapters could set up something like Go to Meeting or Skype and we meet that way.

[Tom McLemore]

I hear what you guys are saying. I too have to leave my system in the hands of the untrained and travel a pretty good clip to go to the conference. But if this is important to us we need to show up and have a voice. I wish we could figure a way to connect across the ocean so that all the countries could meet in one room. Its doable but rather expensive. And there is nothing that says the charter has to be accepted or the association has to be formed. However there are a few folks that have done a lot of work to try to get this off the ground and I plan to show up and see what they have to say. I hope you guys can make it.

 

Tom

[Wayne Hall]

Its definitively difficult to attend meetings even when you are able to drive to them within your own neighbourhood. 

With internet available to most people its just as easy to have a meeting via Skype, which is how we conduct our sessions.

Raychel A Watkins said:

Maybe the chapters could set up something like Go to Meeting or Skype and we meet that way.

[Wayne Hall]

Very valid concerns, and yes probably most will start out in the "chapter at large"

For those who have no branch/chapter or are not willing to join a branch, there is the "chapter at large", and this chapter will also have a voice, as it too will have members.

Keep in mind that the "Proposed Charter" is a blueprint/starting point as we move forward, and as the Association grows and matures, so the Charter will need to grow and mature.

TCLynx said:

So here at start up as everyone is probably going to start out in the "chapter at large" (since there can't be any branches until at least three months after people have joined)

 

How will the structure work for voting since there won't yet be any delegates from the branches to do the voting on the chapter level and therefore no one on the chapter level to be on the board and vote for the international officers.

 

Will we be starting out where the actual members on the base level get to directly vote for the initial officers and so forth?

 

If some one joins the Chapter at large, later after this initial start up, how do they get to vote if they don't have a branch to represent them to the chapter and therefore up to the international?

 

At a later date when there are chapters and branches around more of the world.  What if some branch doesn't want to accept membership from some one in their area?  Will that individual still be able to join the association through the chapter at large?  (I don't know if this is likely to be an issue but I'm currently a member in an organization where the membership of a local votes on if they will allow a new member in and people who can't get membership in a particular local have something like a "chapter at large" they can join instead.)

 

Basically, will there be any voice/vote for the orphans without a branch?