Aquaponic Gardening

A Community and Forum For Aquaponic Gardeners

Greetings everyone. I purchased a system from Sylvia many months ago, but had to do some prep work before going ahead...that prep work being, getting a greenhouse up. Well, that's finally done, and this past week, I assembled the whole thing, filled it with water, and am now in the process of cycling it.

Yesterday was day one. The setup is complete and operational. The unit is in the greenhouse.

On day one, I added the dry mix included in the cycle kit.

On day two (today), I first tested the ph (8.2) and the ammonia levels (8ppm). Immediately after this, I added 5ml (2 tsp) of ammonia from the cycle kit. I did not check ammonia levels after this, but it seems to me that I was already starting out with 8ppm of ammonia, that adding ammonia would boost the levels even higher… I assume that as nitrites and nitrates climb, ammonia will go down? At what levels should I be concerned with if ammonia keeps rising?

2. I was watching one of Murray's videos, and the question I have is… Is the ideal way (with a flood and drain system such as Sylvia's) is to fill the grow bed up to about an inch under the top layer so as not to expose the top layer to water… thereby inhibiting algae? Then if so, and I had a better timer, would it be better to simply allow the water to reach the desired level, and then to have the timer switch to off? Or, is it better to allow the water to flood the bed for a full 15 minutes?

Thanks! and I'm sure i'll have many more questions.

Jim

Views: 685

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Thanks Sylvia.  Before doing a water exchange, I want to see if the used filter pad will kick start the system enough to overcome the ammonia levels. I will give it a few days and go from there.  If the levels still haven't dropped by then, I will do the water exchange.


I just finished testing my levels and no change from yesterday.  Just for grins I did a nitrite test, and of course the levels were zero.  So tomorrow, it's back to work, and hopefully I will come home with a few used pads... one to throw in the tank, and the other to throw into the media bed.  I'll lick this problem yet!

 

Sylvia Bernstein said:

Great idea, Jim.  Since nitrifying bacteria actually need a surface to cling to I'd probably stick that filter pad into the media instead of throw it in the tank...easier surface-to-surface trip for the little buggers.  

 

The #1 bag contains both powdered MaxiCrop and ammonia.  Let me know if you decide to pump off a bit of your water to dilute down the ammonia and I'll send you some more of the powdered MaxiCrop.

Good morning, Kobus...Happy Easter!  Thanks for the links.  I'll give them a read.  I'm very familiar with the chart you posted (it's in my book ) and completely agree with the points you made. In our revised kit instructions we focus on a target ammonia level of 2 - 4 ppm (4, not 5 because the test kit measures ammonia in even numbers) rather than adding a fixed amount of powder. I also don't think that a higher level is a big inhibitor ...and as soon the bacteria gets established it will chew though the excess...but probably pointless to go above 5 ppm. 

I've struggled with the notion of adding a bacterial culture to our kits. Live cultures clearly have a very short shelf life and really aren't practical to include in a manufactured product. I explored a number of shelf stabilized products but most of them were of questionable efficacy (I spent a lot of time on the aquarium forums reading their reviews).  Of the couple that seemed reasonable to try out I got decent results...but then I started questioning my testing environment and methods as I said earlier in this post.  What I concluded was that the best thing that we could tell our customers to do was to locate a source of live bacteria (aquariums, ponds, etc.) and add it to their systems as it sounds like Jim is about to do.

All that might be changing, however, as Tim Mann from Friendly Aquaponics very graciously contacted me and suggested a source of shelf stable bacteria culture that they have tested and used for a while now, and many of their students have used, with great success.  I have it on order and will probably be including it in our cycling kits soon.

I'll have to go look at those reviews.  I use the product called Cycle in an emergency, but typically just swipe a bit of gravel from an established system to start the next in an ideal situation.  I just think that the average person with little aquarium background is far too in a hurry to have it all sorted.  We used to take 6 weeks in the time before cycle bacteria with a raw aquarium, 3 - 4 now with cycle.  I think people should be careful with sourcing stuff out off ponds though - perhaps they can get into contact with other people in their area and exchange a bucket of new media for some established media.

Sylvia Bernstein said:

Good morning, Kobus...Happy Easter!  Thanks for the links.  I'll give them a read.  I'm very familiar with the chart you posted (it's in my book ) and completely agree with the points you made. In our revised kit instructions we focus on a target ammonia level of 2 - 4 ppm (4, not 5 because the test kit measures ammonia in even numbers) rather than adding a fixed amount of powder. I also don't think that a higher level is a big inhibitor ...and as soon the bacteria gets established it will chew though the excess...but probably pointless to go above 5 ppm. 

I've struggled with the notion of adding a bacterial culture to our kits. Live cultures clearly have a very short shelf life and really aren't practical to include in a manufactured product. I explored a number of shelf stabilized products but most of them were of questionable efficacy (I spent a lot of time on the aquarium forums reading their reviews).  Of the couple that seemed reasonable to try out I got decent results...but then I started questioning my testing environment and methods as I said earlier in this post.  What I concluded was that the best thing that we could tell our customers to do was to locate a source of live bacteria (aquariums, ponds, etc.) and add it to their systems as it sounds like Jim is about to do.

All that might be changing, however, as Tim Mann from Friendly Aquaponics very graciously contacted me and suggested a source of shelf stable bacteria culture that they have tested and used for a while now, and many of their students have used, with great success.  I have it on order and will probably be including it in our cycling kits soon.

Thanks Sylvia.  I battled the high ph and ammonia levels and gave up.  I saved several gallons of the water from the tank and drained the rest.  Filled the tank with fresh water, and put the saved water back in as well. The ph is now at around 7.6 and ammonia is down to between 1 and 2 ppm. I've also gone ahead and planted three watermelon seedlings. I also went looking for some seaweed extract, but no luck, so, if you would be so kind, please send me some of the MaxiCrop.  I feel better about the current levels, and hopefully within a week, the levels will stabilize.  In your opinion, should I now add any additional ammonia?

 


Sylvia Bernstein said:

Let me know if you decide to pump off a bit of your water to dilute down the ammonia and I'll send you some more of the powdered MaxiCrop.

No problem, Jim.  I'll get some replacement Maxicrop in the mail to you tomorrow.  Now what you need to do is maintain ammonia in your system until you add in your fish, which you can think of as automatic ammonia generators.  You want to maintain a level of ammonia between 2 - 4 ppm by testing your water every day and adding ammonia, if necessary, to reach that target. Think of it as you are feeding the front end of a food chain with the ammonia.  The ammonia attracts the first bacteria, nitrosomonas, that then produces nitrites that attract the second bacteria which produces the nitrates that you are looking for.  If you don't keep the ammonia present during this process you will lose the first bacteria and the chain is broken.

 

You might want to consider different plants than watermelons for the first few months of your system.  They require a lot of nutrition and you won't have the potassium, calcium, etc. that they are going to be present until your system has been cycled for a while (4 - 6 months).  I recommend sticking to more nitrogen focused plants (lettuces and greens) at the beginning.

Great tips. I also have seedling started for lettuce, tomatoes, spinach, and broccoli...

Will test water today, and add some ammonia if needed.  The water I added back in had also been bathing in the used filter pads from work, so with any luck, those little critters are still alive and well...

 


Sylvia Bernstein said:

No problem, Jim.  I'll get some replacement Maxicrop in the mail to you tomorrow.  Now what you need to do is maintain ammonia in your system until you add in your fish, which you can think of as automatic ammonia generators.  You want to maintain a level of ammonia between 2 - 4 ppm by testing your water every day and adding ammonia, if necessary, to reach that target. Think of it as you are feeding the front end of a food chain with the ammonia.  The ammonia attracts the first bacteria, nitrosomonas, that then produces nitrites that attract the second bacteria which produces the nitrates that you are looking for.  If you don't keep the ammonia present during this process you will lose the first bacteria and the chain is broken.

 

You might want to consider different plants than watermelons for the first few months of your system.  They require a lot of nutrition and you won't have the potassium, calcium, etc. that they are going to be present until your system has been cycled for a while (4 - 6 months).  I recommend sticking to more nitrogen focused plants (lettuces and greens) at the beginning.

As of this morning, ph is at 7.8, and ammonia at 2ppm.  No nitrites yet of course...

I guess I need to start trying to drop the ph a bit. What would the comfortable range be for the beginning of a cycle?

The living element of your system that will be unhappy about pH above 7 is your plants...your bacteria are in good shape. Since your main focus right now is the bacteria you might just want to take the day off since your readings above look fine.  If you are feeling the need to adjust you could target 7.4ish...but, again, not really necessary until you creep over 8 IMO.
I agree, I would leave things to cycle.  Any pH between 6.8 and 8.0 is just fine for cycling.  The bio-filter once cycled up, in it's process of converting ammonia into plant usable nitrate will tend to naturally bring the pH down on it's own.

Well, it is now day 4 since I swapped out the majority of my water with fresh water. Here are the surprising results of today's water tests:

ph: 8-8.2

ammonia: 2ppm

nitrite: 2-5ppm

nitrate: 5ppm

 

I added 5ml of ammonia to the water yesterday, and currently have about 5 or 6 seedlings in the growbed.

The watermelon seem to like the environment. They already have the second set of leaves popping. Since some of the seedlings are very small and tender, I've decided to put a few entire peat pellets in the growbed, and waiting until they are strong enough to put directly into the hydroton. It doesn't look like much peat is leaking into the bed, and I'm sure that small amount that does wouldn't hurt the system.

 

My real concern is the ph.  It's been high since the second day of the new water. I have used a total of 400 drops of ph down so far (over the last three days), but the ph doesn't seem to be budging...

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks!

Sounds like you are making great progress, Jim!  What is your water source and what media are you using?
I am on well water, and using hydroton.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

© 2024   Created by Sylvia Bernstein.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service