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Comment by Rob Torcellini on February 13, 2013 at 1:37pm

The projects are never done.  It's one reason why I decided to video the geodesic dome build.  1) so people could see what was involved with putting it all together 2) a motivator to actually finish it because everyone was expecting to see the end result.  

Comment by Jim Fisk on February 13, 2013 at 11:49am

Thanks Nate. I sure will. Should have thought to ask the first time. Include that in your soon to be released book:-) My book on my family size build including gh is already over 50 pages and stalled. Time and "in the mood" are prerequisites for sure. I am used to writing plans for a one week project like a composter or a wood stove, but a one year project with so many nuances is quite another task altogether. And then there is the operations section after the build that may never finalize as there seems to always be something new. When to stop and publish? Yikes! It is very satisfying to get it all down on paper though.

Comment by Bob Campbell on February 13, 2013 at 11:14am

@Nate - I started to leave my last message under your recent video in response to your request for suggestions, but felt it would be good to say it here.

Maybe you could grab a a camera,  and describe what you are doing and your thoughts as you inspect your plants.  Tell us what you are looking for in response to anything you may have recently adjusted, and the things you are taking note of.  .I know that may seem kind of boring, or trivial, but I think it would help folks like me to get a better understanding of how to become successful.

Comment by Vlad Jovanovic on February 13, 2013 at 10:47am

Amen to that Nate. Part of "the reality" is that in the AP 'marriage' of plants and fish that is always talked about in the AP 'marketing' literature... along with the 'benefits' of hydro and RAS, also come the 'problems and headaches' of both. It takes a good deal of time and energy to get the machine running smoothly. (Hopefully keeping that way will be a bit less 'intensive'. But yeah, the GH is usually the first thing I see when I wake up, and one of the last things I see before I go to bed. Now, I'm not complaining, and actually I rather enjoy it, (yes, I'm a bit of a masochist) but I can certainly see how it might not be for everyone...

Comment by Nate Storey on February 13, 2013 at 10:43am

Jim, order your ladybugs from Arbico Organics: http://www.arbico-organics.com/product/Live-Ladybugs

Good quality and reliable.  When I order I usually order 5K to 10K less than $30.

Comment by Jim Fisk on February 13, 2013 at 10:38am

Bob, I couldn't agree more in regard to details. I had to learn so many details the hard way during the build phase that I used to post them religiously until I got blasted by Rupert for "reinventing the wheel" and taken apart line by line that frankly I haven't felt the same enthusiasm since. I'll try to get over it. I believe you can often learn more from someone who has just learned it themselves as opposed to a Guru who takes the "details" for granted. Kinda like a grandma trying to learn computers from a kid who grew up with them. Even the language is a hurdle.

As to dialed in, holy crap I have so many questions and even when you think you solved a problem you're not always sure what you did that cured it (take fish deaths for example) and when will it rear it's ugly head again. I learn from you guys, like thin out plants, run a fan, drop water levels so no damp spots, and lots of fly tape, both white and yellow and regular old fly strips. I still have flies but they aren't damaging the crops anymore. I use lots of the 12" x 8 ft. white tape under the gbs where moisture likes to gather even with no leaks just from condensation (and the Lady Bugs don't tend to go there). They eventually turn black with bodies. Just remember to cut back on the ones in the foliage BEFORE you release those expensive Lady Bugs ($50.00 del for 300)  I too "I feel that the difference lies within the details."

"Sorting all this out has been strenuous and overwhelming" Tell me about it. There are days I am afraid to look too closely in the fish tanks and fear NONE will ever survive till harvest. We all want to be seen as HAPPY APiers

Oh, and Bob, fab charts. We count on you for those. I have to admire your patience.

Nate: I will try the gnatrol. I sure would like to wipe them out before Spring.

Perhaps we should start a new topic so our "Top 3" don't get lost in this discussion. These things don't really fit in to the Newbie thread as we are all here getting a little more advanced and these more sophisticated questions or topics would only tend to confuse or discourage a newbie. At least I hope we are more advanced after all we have been thru?

Rob: I hope we ans. your question. Basically hit them with everything you can before they do the same to you but keep it "fish friendly" There in lies the rub.

Comment by Nate Storey on February 13, 2013 at 10:29am

You're right Bob.  I feel like my system is definitely dialed in, and I know how to deal with the pests, nutrients, etc. but the irony is that once you have a productive business, it's very hard to find the time to explain the details because you're too busy running the business/system!  I've been working on a technical manual off and on for a while, but the better the business does, the less time I have to work on it. . .  On intervention, I do tell 90% of the people I talk to to forget about trying to run an AP business.  They usually go to someone else after that, but at least I don't have it on my conscience.

The truth is, it's not easy, but it also doesn't have to be hard either- a well designed system will work well from the start.  If you're doing a larger/commercial system you just have to understand it needs supervision 24/7.  My business partner is at the greenhouse first thing in the morning (I'm at the office), and I stoke the furnace on cold nights between 9 and 10PM, so you just have a farmers schedule really.  If you don't mind working 14 hour days for low pay, it's really not that hard! :) If you do mind. . .you'll fail out in 6 months or less.

Comment by Bob Campbell on February 13, 2013 at 9:51am

I get that when you finally get your routine dialed in, you don't often see problems, But it would be very helpful if the indications, and preempted actions you take to keep your crops at their peak were discussed.  Things that seem obvious, stuff you don't give second thought to, might be missed by others, and make all the difference between very successful and meager crops.

Sorting all this out has been strenuous and overwhelming, and I have gained a lot of respect for those who can make it work.  This may sound odd, but I wish you would not make it look so easy.  I'd like to see more intervention and less success.  I'd like to see more discussions about why you pulled a sick plant, or how you determined a nutrient deficiency, what you are doing to correct it, or why you made some small adjustment or planted a different variety.

I feel that the difference lies within the details.

Comment by Nate Storey on February 13, 2013 at 9:16am

gnatrol will kill those gnats for you. . . 

@Jim 1. Cheap heat- solution wood burning hydronic heat system 2. supplier failures (plugs specifically)- solution taking over everything ourselves, now we do everything on site 3. lower winter production/cost of lighting/security of lighting in a poly film greenhouse- solution work lower winter rates into our contracts, increase production capacity and seeding during the winter. . . 

Comment by Rob Torcellini on February 13, 2013 at 8:28am

I'd be interested to know how you're dealing with the fungus gnats.  I have some but they don't seem to be causing any harm....yet!

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