Does anyone know of specific plant(s) types that can be fed to tilapia & Koi?

[Growzay]

I'm refering to veggie (leaf scraps) from the garden beds- as a supplement to there regular diet.  

Are there any types of plants that I should stay away from- for one reason or another? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Growzay

[Carey Ma]

No dry ice. Basically any freezer will do but the quicker you are able to freeze (flash freeze) the more freshness you preserve. Lowering the air pressure (suction) helps draw the water out quicker and more thoroughly.

[TCLynx]

that's great info about the freeze drying Carey!  Thanks for sharing it and Your ramblings of what you have tried and how it does for you are great and very informative to me.  Actually far more useful than trying to figure out how to apply scientific papers to actually making my own feed for my fish.

 

As to feeding tilapia different feeds.  As with many animals, they get used to a particular feed and changing over to something different may have some challenges.  I've even noticed that if I dropped some leaves into a tank with only a small number of tilapia, they tended not to bother with it but if I dropped leaves into the tank with lots of tilapia, they tore into it.  I sometimes thing it required a tug of war for any of them to rip off manageable mouth fulls so was only useful in large group feeding.

 

And sometimes you have to let the fish get a bit hungry and keep trying the new food for a while before any can develop a taste for it.

[Conrad Chin-Yee]

We forgot to mention that tilapia will eat kangkong and spirulina algae. I have found that one downside to feeding fresh vegetable leaves is that the tilapia tear and shred the leaves leaving bits and pieces that easily clog my overflow drains filters. I prefer to feed them pellets as they swallow the whole thing making poop that is much smaller and won't cover the coarse drain filter. All I need to do is to learn how to make my own pelleted food from all that good vegetable and BSF larvae. How about grinding and then extruding the mash through a cheap pasta maker machine? Has anyone made something like this?

 

 

[TCLynx]

Good point Conrad about the leaves blocking overflows and stuff easily, I have experienced this.

 

Now I expect that Carey's Freeze drying/powdering methods will make a good start to a mix that can then be turned into pellets or crumbles in various ways.  I expect if you get some sort of binder you could mix something up like pasta and squeeze it through a pasta machine or meat grinder and then bake or let dry into pellet size pieces.  Biggest challenge I see there (other than the very labor intensive quality of such work) is figuring out how to make the mix float if you want a floating pellet feed. 

 

Oh, and I'll warn that significant others are not always happy about one trying to mix up bugs and make fish food using their kitchen equipment.

[jim mckee]

Conrad Chin-Yee said:

We forgot to mention that tilapia will eat kangkong and spirulina algae. I have found that one downside to feeding fresh vegetable leaves is that the tilapia tear and shred the leaves leaving bits and pieces that easily clog my overflow drains filters. I prefer to feed them pellets as they swallow the whole thing making poop that is much smaller and won't cover the coarse drain filter. All I need to do is to learn how to make my own pelleted food from all that good vegetable and BSF larvae. How about grinding and then extruding the mash through a cheap pasta maker machine? Has anyone made something like this?

 

Pelletizers are not too much $.  They can also be dual purposed to make fuel from sawdust/woodchips/bio mass to run a pellet burner for heat (I like hot water systems because they are very flexible).

Just dry the BSF/fish offal/high protein vegs, then pellitize them and BOOM the fish don't know that it's not commercial pellets.

jim

 

 

[Two Jay]

TC, Use Craigslist and garage sales to find alternate cooking equipment... it's always helpful to keep a good cook around and happy.  Another idea is to steal his, let him buy some new gear for the kitchen... this works before you actually use it.

 

[David Waite]

So Carey to do what you are saying is to drill a hole in a freezer and hook up a shop vac and place the veges in the freezer and flash freeze under some suction. This is basically vaccum packed and frozen then and not freeze drying if I understand you correctly. I think Ill just put them in my vaccum packer and freeze them then. My freezer hates holes.

Carey Ma said:

No dry ice. Basically any freezer will do but the quicker you are able to freeze (flash freeze) the more freshness you preserve. Lowering the air pressure (suction) helps draw the water out quicker and more thoroughly.

[Growzay]

Thanks You Carey for taking the time - again & again to adress each of the questions I've had for the last 4- months. You along with several others here on the forum have kept me on track with my learning experiences thusfar & without your guidance I don't know where I would be with regards to AP. I learn from this forum everday more & more about different ideas, techniques and suggestions from alot of other Aquapons regarding a wide range of subjects surrounding Aquaponics/Aquaculture and Garending. I appreciate you guys helping me. I appreciate Sylvia for providing us all with a wonderful place to learn and grow our dreams. Carey - Your insight to sustainable living and enthusiasm is a great inspiration for me. Thanks Again :)

Growzay

 

[Raychel A Watkins]

I made an exciting observation today.  I feed my big tilapia duckweed and most of them like it.  I also feed them azola, lettuce, and a lot of other plant matter.  I have had several new hatching of baby fry in the last month.  I have finally figured out a way to keep from killing them all.  I made a square of 1/2 in pvc pipe and sewed some netting to form a bag.  Actually my WWOOFers from Flagstaff AZ made them when they were here.  Well I dropped a big piece of pvc in the bottom to hold the bottom down.  I tied this to the inside if my big IBC tanks in the corner.  I then scooped the babbies out of the big tanks and into the net.  This way the water doesn't over heat (smaller container heats up and kills them ).  My first batch are about 1/2 in still considered fry.  I had put some duckweed(not on puropose) in there water and had to scoop some out everyday so it didn't over come them.  Today when I feed them regular food I noticed there was not one leaf of duckweed.  I thought wow they must have eaten it.  I got another scoop and put it in and came back an hour later and not one green spot left.  So I gave them another scoop and we shall see in the morning.  I also put a scoop in the three other nets with babies.  As soon as I put it in the second oldest fry net the tiny little guy started beating on it .  I bet it will be gone by morning.  I will try azola next and go on from there.  I think I am going to set up 2 tanks and feed one nothing but natural foods and one with natural and the commercial food.  I want to see how they will progress.  I bet there isn't much difference.  If we are ever going to be sustainable we have to get rid of the commercial feed.  I had never tried it on the small ones before and this time only by accident.

[Growzay]

Hi Raychel - I agree we should get away from commercial feed.  I am almost ready to try growing duckweed in a seperate kiddy pool-

I also have been feeding the koi & tilapia a few types of greens and they are getting use to the wide range of foods- They still love the redworms the most! That's seems to be there favorite besides the occasional small white moth larvae/caterpillar

The only thing that concerns me about the commercial feed is the Soy and Corn Source- is-it GMO and all the chemical that I can't even pronounce.

[Carey Ma]

@TC: I always appreciate warm fuzzies; makes smoggy, dripping barrels, hot, muggy, sunless days go just that much better. Thank you. I live in service of my brother, and glad to count you among them.

 

The thing is, people forget that each microclimate, or geographical local has its own special requirements so it is impossible to have a cookie cutter/ one size fits all handbook. It is understanding the concept/s and being able to apply them in our unique situations is what brings us stability. Being able to improve on stability brings us into the realms of profit, in this case, our land, and therefore eventually rewarded with recognition, which translates into financial sustainability…everyone wins!…yeah!

 

Food mills/ extruders/ pasta makers; are exactly the thing I would recommend for beginners, heck, leave out the bugs (at first, till you get hooked and go buy one). Ok, I don’t remember if you remember my first post on making feed but I believe the key word there is what you are looking for. The key word is, ……tadda…consistency. I do my powders and add my binders and attractants etc. but the key is water and air. If you want to make it float…haha…that’s the million dollar question. Well here’s a hint. It needs to be dryer/ puffier/ less dense on the inside (to trap air), than the outside, which ya want almost smooth, softish and sealed. So challenge your mind and tell me what and how you would attempt this?

 

As for the labor-intensive work…that’s only until I/we figure everything out, then we’ll have commercial processors licensed to use my/our methods for cheep urban AP feed.

 

@ Two Jay; I couldn’t agree with you more. Cooks are awesome to have as friends. Too bad Craig’s list don’t do me much good out here. I’d die for a 12” cast iron pan with lid.

 

@ Dave: Tsk tsk my fellow. I expected more outta you than that. The process of freeze-drying is called lyophilization. The opposite of a compressor (for nail guns) is called a vacuum pump, which is a bit different from a shop-vac, (worse that calling AP fish tanks with pipes). Freeze drying happens when water in the vegetables or whatever freeze and evaporate without going through the liquid stage. This happens naturally in our freezers, it’s called freezer burn. Even the simple act of freezing brings a lot of water out of the cells but the slower the matter is frozen the larger the crystals but the more tissue damage. Anyway, yeah, go ahead and vac pack and appreciate the conveniences of living in a developed nation with all at its disposal…Unfortunately it’s not the same thing. You’ll probably only partially dehydrate it and if you put it through the food processor, you’ll probably end up with an oxidized, black gunk. Try it. I might be wrong.

 

@ Growzay: It has been my pleasure to accept you as friend and brother. I hope we can continue to learn from each other for decades to come. It's not only GMOs that go against my grain(haha) but the use of grains itself. Cheers for keeping on track.

 

@ Raychel: Good for you! Try it. Repeat it and report it. That’s what we need; to share more…but who’s going to compile this data?

Anyway, now that you know your fries will eat duckweed. Now we need to see if we can weigh the fish and then put in a measured (too much) amount of feed to see how much they can eat; i.e. one oz fries you put in three ounces of duckweed, wait for them to finish feeding then remove and weigh the remaining duckweed. The difference is how much the fish ate. Continue this process once a week throughout their growth cycle and we have a base formula. Cheers to ya good lady. Keep up the great work.

[David Waite]

Carey you have a great concept on freeze drying but I cant seem to pin you down on how to do the procedure. What vaccum pump have you used. How big was the freezer. Was it a flash freezer or are you able to do this with a standard freezer. Are you bagging the veges first and vaccuming them separately, how did you connect to the freezer ect ect.. I dont pretend to have your knowledge on this matter but when I have a procedure for something that will help the community I give the procedure and the pics to help the community. Generalizations are not going to help the rookie like myself. Not trying to berate you at all. If you throw out a great idea like this freeze drying thing then elaborate on the details to the laymen. It gives the impression of hot air if you dont. Im sure this writing seems harsher than I mean it. Just trying to convey the confusion.

Carey Ma said:

@TC: I always appreciate warm fuzzies; makes smoggy, dripping barrels, hot, muggy, sunless days go just that much better. Thank you. I live in service of my brother, and glad to count you among them.

 

The thing is, people forget that each microclimate, or geographical local has its own special requirements so it is impossible to have a cookie cutter/ one size fits all handbook. It is understanding the concept/s and being able to apply them in our unique situations is what brings us stability. Being able to improve on stability brings us into the realms of profit, in this case, our land, and therefore eventually rewarded with recognition, which translates into financial sustainability…everyone wins!…yeah!

 

Food mills/ extruders/ pasta makers; are exactly the thing I would recommend for beginners, heck, leave out the bugs (at first, till you get hooked and go buy one). Ok, I don’t remember if you remember my first post on making feed but I believe the key word there is what you are looking for. The key word is, ……tadda…consistency. I do my powders and add my binders and attractants etc. but the key is water and air. If you want to make it float…haha…that’s the million dollar question. Well here’s a hint. It needs to be dryer/ puffier/ less dense on the inside (to trap air), than the outside, which ya want almost smooth, softish and sealed. So challenge your mind and tell me what and how you would attempt this?

 

As for the labor-intensive work…that’s only until I/we figure everything out, then we’ll have commercial processors licensed to use my/our methods for cheep urban AP feed.

 

@ Two Jay; I couldn’t agree with you more. Cooks are awesome to have as friends. Too bad Craig’s list don’t do me much good out here. I’d die for a 12” cast iron pan with lid.

 

@ Dave: Tsk tsk my fellow. I expected more outta you than that. The process of freeze-drying is called lyophilization. The opposite of a compressor (for nail guns) is called a vacuum pump, which is a bit different from a shop-vac, (worse that calling AP fish tanks with pipes). Freeze drying happens when water in the vegetables or whatever freeze and evaporate without going through the liquid stage. This happens naturally in our freezers, it’s called freezer burn. Even the simple act of freezing brings a lot of water out of the cells but the slower the matter is frozen the larger the crystals but the more tissue damage. Anyway, yeah, go ahead and vac pack and appreciate the conveniences of living in a developed nation with all at its disposal…Unfortunately it’s not the same thing. You’ll probably only partially dehydrate it and if you put it through the food processor, you’ll probably end up with an oxidized, black gunk. Try it. I might be wrong.

 

@ Growzay: It has been my pleasure to accept you as friend and brother. I hope we can continue to learn from each other for decades to come. It's not only GMOs that go against my grain(haha) but the use of grains itself. Cheers for keeping on track.

 

@ Raychel: Good for you! Try it. Repeat it and report it. That’s what we need; to share more…but who’s going to compile this data?

Anyway, now that you know your fries will eat duckweed. Now we need to see if we can weigh the fish and then put in a measured (too much) amount of feed to see how much they can eat; i.e. one oz fries you put in three ounces of duckweed, wait for them to finish feeding then remove and weigh the remaining duckweed. The difference is how much the fish ate. Continue this process once a week throughout their growth cycle and we have a base formula. Cheers to ya good lady. Keep up the great work.