Swirl vs. Plate filter

[Jeremiah Robinson]

I'm building a small DWC system, and am trying to decide what kind of filter to use for solids removal.

Is a swirl filter better, or should I use one of those filters with a sheet running through the middle the the water has to go under.

[Jim Fisk]

Jeremiah, you go guy. Best of luck. I was right there for both of ours. Best of times.

[Jim Fisk]

Wow, Aquaman, that is great. Not sure I could be quite that far out but I have often thought about it. You are living the dream.

[Jeremiah Robinson]

Ok last one.  Here's what Don said.

PVC itself is not the problem rather it is the additives such as lead that is added for elastomeric reasons, that can leach out usually at elevated temps, well above any AP applications.  It is used widely in medical grade supplies like IV Saline solutions and Blood bags.  Used in AP environments is unlikely to show up in detectable levels thus should be adequately safe.  

@ Aquaman. Don't forget ongoing cost. Running a pump constantly has a cost.  Heating has a cost, whether dollars to buy electricity or time to chop wood.  Spending money upfront to minimize these ongoing costs is usually a good investment.

Ok now I'm out.

[larry poe]

jim,

in 1990 I went to the army and had AIT in Fort Lee VA. part of my MOS training took place in Richmond VA and Washington DC (I was a 57F, graves and registration spec) I will never forget the shock I felt looking around one of DC's "shady" districts (it wasn't far from the FBI headquarters were we were training atm, and we wondered around during lunch)

that was my first glimpse at the glaring difference between rural life and an urban one lol..........HUGE wakeup for a 19yr old country kid.

I don't think a lot of "liberals" understand..........comprehend, life where a cop isn't minutes away......and that everyone who owns a gun isn't the same as the thug waving it around the hood to look "gansta".

where we are from "gun control" means hitting what your aiming at, and never pointing a firearm at something or someone  you don't intend to shoot.

funny story that accualy happened a few miles from me a few days ago........county deputys were chasing a stolen vehicle and lost it on a rural road (guy had accualy pulled off the road and stashed it out of sight and went off walking) the deputys had to abandon the chase to go to an emergency call half a county away....the "perp" got lost in the woods and stumbled out at a rural farm. the owner had heard the sirens and didn't reconise the person who stumbled on his place, so he held him at gunpoint and called it in.......dispatch told him from the description he was wanted and a deputy would be there ASAP....... a few hrs later a deputy came and relieved the owner and took custody of the "perp" lol..........now THATS country

aquaman........our place is accualy 10acres at the edge of this small town. we have been here 21yrs. I agree with you aquapoinics has HUGE implications for feeding the world. an issue that American farmers have taken to heart for generations.

[Jim Fisk]

Yup, sounds like our Shady Valley. Another plus we love about "Shady" is the fact that the hot moist middle America winds hit our mountains and shoot up into the cold air aloft and of course we get clouds a plenty, thus the name. We were in town pu more pvc yesterday and when we turned to head home, there in the distance were the bellowing clouds over our beloved valley. 80F in town with a blistering Sun. 70F at home with a nice cloud cover. We still marvel at our natural air conditioning. That's why the Trout are a plenty up here in the many streams and our fish of choice in our system. We considered calling our AP op "Shady Aquaponics"

Funny story, one of my siphon customers in NC just copied my siphon and put it up on Ebay undercutting my price. Now that's a class act. He even cut and pasted part of my description. Time for another sale I guess. Wondered how long it would take. He has a feedback of 4, one being mine. My feedback is around 1300 so good luck buddy.

[Jim Fisk]

Don't forget that starting a motor uses enough electricity to run it steady for probably close to half an hr. An unloaded motor draws practicly nothing so ease of flow using sweeps and so forth is very important. That start up surge is also hardest thing a motor has to do. It's a balancing act. With trout you really need constant flow. Tilapia are the only fish I can think of that will put up with long stagnant periods. Portable Farms only floods twice per day and get great results with Tilapia but we like Trout so much better and I doubt they would last a week. Need a good FILTER

I've decided to use a  every time I am back on topic.

Jeremiah Robinson said:

Ok last one.  Here's what Don said.

PVC itself is not the problem rather it is the additives such as lead that is added for elastomeric reasons, that can leach out usually at elevated temps, well above any AP applications.  It is used widely in medical grade supplies like IV Saline solutions and Blood bags.  Used in AP environments is unlikely to show up in detectable levels thus should be adequately safe.  

@ Aquaman. Don't forget ongoing cost. Running a pump constantly has a cost.  Heating has a cost, whether dollars to buy electricity or time to chop wood.  Spending money upfront to minimize these ongoing costs is usually a good investment.

Ok now I'm out.

[aquaman]

Jim ya sometimes its a dream other times its a nightmare haha We have lived there for 19 yrs on solar and raised 3 boys. But it has been fun and adding the aqua ponics to our land has been a very exciting thing We hope over the next cpl yrs to really expand and grow a lot of are food. Just really want to say thx to all of you guys and gals on here for being there. You are all trail blazers and helping change the U.S. May not seem like it but in the long run it will :))

[aquaman]

JR thats good news sense i'am using PVC with well water from a 1000 feet done. And yes there are always more costs Was just referring to helping ppl get started. Once that happens the excitement will build and they will talk about it to other ppl. Just go on line and try to find someone that will come to your house and help you set up a system I couldn't find any thing except very pricy stuff

[larry poe]

jim,

back to Jeremiah's original filter subject  lol..........I am going to use the marineland SOS I mentioned before for top skimming, and also these 2 tetrapond bio filters I mentioned I found before. the SOS is rated for 600gph and one bio filter (submersible one) is rated for 500g, the other inline one is rated for 1600g I think it was......not having to have the big one underwater will mean cleaning out any "solids" will be a snap should I ever accualy have to clean it. just shut off the pump unscrew the lid and walla.  this should keep any having to clean out the media beds to a minimum. (I plan on a mixed system of media beds and DWC.

I would like to try trout, but I think because of my huge cistern im planning on using for the main tank im going to use crappie........I know from fishing for them they like it cool and deep most of the year and only come in shallows in the spring to spawn.....hotter the days the deeper they go in lakes...and this cistern is somewhere around 14-16ft deep. idk it just looks like the perfect "crappie hole" lol.....

I also plan on minnows in a separate tank to keep skitter larva down and to feed to the crappie....along with the worms in compost and media beds ( spot where I want to build the greenhouse includes this cistern and a small 8x10 cellar that will be perfect for worm beds )

its all on the south side of my brick constructed house so should keep the north wind and cold down in the winter.

[Jim Fisk]

@Aquaman; Everything, especially freedom, has its price. My hat is off to you. Almost strange I haven't done the same so far. We do have a good running stream here with a 35' drop on our property so I DO plan on tapping into that for mini hydro. 24/7/365 = a bunch of power. I have run 200' of 2" pipe so far but it is not at the top of the list SO FAR. 1000 ft well? yikes! Ours is 250' artesian, so no power needed there. About 26lbs at the house so I ran 1" pipes and pressure is amazing at faucets, etc. Not much pressure but lots of volume which translates to pressure when restricted.

@ Larry; At that depth Winter shouldn't matter. How do you plan on catching them? If I had all those filters I would put them to work. All sounds good to me. I too am mixing the 2 bed types as I'm sure you gathered. Still waiting for liner.

Just sold 5 Nubian goats. Our garden and fruit trees are safe again

[Jeremiah Robinson]

Hey Guys,

Labor not started yet so we've got time.

With the issue of motor starting and energy use, Jim's right about them using more energy at start, but not about the time frame.  The starting inrush current for most motors lasts about 0.3 seconds.  They use as much in that time as during 30 seconds of normal operation (not 30 minutes).  

Here are a couple of charts that show the starting curves: Chart 1 and Chart 2.

Starting and stopping is harder on pumps, but not detrimental if you have a good pump.  There are a lot of pumps in factories I've visited that stop many times per hour and run for years.  I'm interested in finding a cheaper pump to offer but I would want to test (abuse) it for a while before recommending it to others.

I've been raising rainbow trout all winter in a timed flood and drain system.  They get flow when the motor's running, but on cold nights that can be 2 minutes per hour.  The aerator provides some vertical flow and they seem to like playing in it.  They grew very fast, from 7" in October to 1.5-2 lbs at the end of May.  They also grow in my Gramma's lake where there's no flow at all.

I posted recently on another thread a comparison in Australia between timed flood/drain, constant-flood, and constant flood-drain (siphon).  It was originally posted on BYAP in a thread with 40 pages of comments.  Pour yourself a tall one before you start that :)  Any thoughts?  Timed flood/drain won the contest.

Anything else I can disagree with Jim about 

[larry poe]

Jim. its not that hard accualy.......ive got a pretty good net ;)......ive accualy kept extra bass, catfish ect from fishing in it (too lazy to clean them all at one time).......koi from the yard ponds in the winter..........ect ect for periods each, for along time. I have a MONSTER air pump that came with the pet store inventory I bought (used to run the entire store) and the last cpl years I have also kept that in there with a weight on the air stones to keep it pumped with oxygen......when a family member rebuilt there pond we put a bunch of mixed fingerlings in there to restock when it was completed too...

its those last 2 or 3 who can be a zinger to catch lol......

we raised and showed Nubians for years when my daughter was home. Virginia Baker ( Copper Hill Nubians) lived not far from us and was a good friend of ours......lol even in her 80s-90s that lady was a TIGER, she was a blast to visit with.

jeremiah........I will set down and read the thread one of these nights......I like to read replys from lots of different points of view as "perfection" is usualy somewhere in between. least that's always been my experience :/