Swirl vs. Plate filter

[Jeremiah Robinson]

I'm building a small DWC system, and am trying to decide what kind of filter to use for solids removal.

Is a swirl filter better, or should I use one of those filters with a sheet running through the middle the the water has to go under.

[Jeremiah Robinson]

Here's some more info. on PVC vs. HDPE.

Thanks again for the kind words Jim.  You're such an encouraging guy as long as you're not trying to shoot anyone :)

[Jim Fisk]

When I can get HDPE at Lowes and at a reasonable price I'll consider it. For now I'll take Murray's word for it. Far more important to get people growing their own food again than worry about something we really aren't sure is a problem. I'll leave the HDPE worries to those that have money to burn and are willing to pay 90.00 for a bell siphon that I can sell for 40.00. Speaking of which 300.00 for a pump at your website? My Little Giant 1100gph pump that has been running non stop for over 2 years cost me 70.00 and that is a top brand name pump. We need to get you down to earth. Think: help the little guy and stop thinking that average folks can justify those acedemia style prices in order to put some real food on their table.

My main goal is to help people at the lowest price possible because those are the folks that actually need the help and they can help pass that knowledge along. I don't know if you've noticed but this country isn't doing so well and liberal crap like doubling the minimum wage is only a brief caffeine fix designed to buy votes and not designed to solve any problems whatsoever. Everything else will adjust to that so fast that all it does is kick the can down the road AGAIN. We need jobs and to teach folks how to be independent of the inflation crisis looming. Time is of the essence. If you are designing a hobby system for millionaires then by all means spare no expense but let's start with the folks that need the help first. To me that is being a good Christian. Am I making any sense?

You write beautifully, so put it to good use and KISS so we can help others. Question: why does a food safe freezer need a food safe liner? That is the first question folks ask in regard to your freezer kits that you asked me about yesterday. Is that a necessary added expense? and if so why?

Haven't had to shoot anyone yet because no one's tried to steal my stuff or threaten my family or my neighbors. The reason we have next to no crime here is because everyone is well armed and everyone respects each other. Detroit might want to reconsider their gun ban. Crime and shootings would be a thing of the past. Can't argue with the facts and that has been proven over and over throughout the world. Bad guys only respect well armed good guys. Some things will never change as long as humans occupy this planet. Greed is the enemy, not guns.

[Jeremiah Robinson]

Thanks for the feedback about products.  I totally agree with your goal of helping others. My take on it is a bit more like use the aquaponics to generate some income so I can hire poorer folks in my area. But I'm also an urban guy rather than rural.

I use PVC in my systems, and I'm pretty comfortable with it. I've heard that HDPE isn't much more money, so I'm curious to try it is all.

The pump is actually a really small markup.  I get them wholesale for not much less than I charge. My pump is it's 4300 GPH, compared to 1100 for yours.  The advantage to this pump, which if you open it up is apparent immediately, is that and built like a horse.  They tell me that it'll run an indexing valve for 15 years, and I believe it based on the abuse I've given it.  Timed flood drain is hard on pumps, so a high-quality pump is a long-term investment. But you save on the sump tank, so it's a wash in some ways.

The freezer kit is needed not because the freezers aren't food safe (I can't actually find any data on whether they're FDA food contact coating rated), but because they're not waterproof and certainly not submersible.  The joints in-between panels aren't well sealed.  Over time, the coatings they're painted with will rust through and leak.  I've seen this happen.  Like I said, I'm thinking of lowering prices on those.  I was also thinking of offering just the coating so folks who like to get stuff cheap/free can find their own adhesives, window materials, etc...

The more I lower margins the harder it gets to see how I'm going to make this a business that can hire people. But I'm only a month into this so there's time to figure it out.  It might be that I charge more for stuff that's pre-fab for wealthier folks in my area and less for DIY folks online. Lot to learn, that's for sure.

Per the guns thing, my take is that neither greed or guns is the problem. The problem is fear (greed might be a form of fear). Fear is the opposite of trust. As long as we're afraid of other human beings (especially those from different cultures/races, etc..), real cooperation can't happen. This has been my experience in places with real intractable problems, such as Haiti. Everyone grabs all they can because, the thinking goes, tomorrow there won't be anything for me and my neighbors will try to take it.  Things there would be so much different and so much better if people trusted each other. 

I feel like I need to say something about swirl or plate filters, but can't think of anything. Maybe we can send all these ideas through the solids filter of good conversation and the crap will settle out, leaving us something beautiful we can all share.

I love your honesty, Jim.  THAT'S inspiring to me!

[Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair]

If someone wants to do a epidemiological study on cancer rates in cities where PVC is not allowed for drinking water (like NYC) vs places it is used extensively, it might solve this question of "is it safe". It isn't allowed in NYC because when it burns the fumes are deadly.

[Jim Fisk]

"I feel like I need to say something about swirl or plate filters, but can't think of anything. Maybe we can send all these ideas through the solids filter of good conversation and the crap will settle out, leaving us something beautiful we can all share."

I love it. Don't get me wrong please, I know you well enough to know you are basically giving those pumps away. I just mean we should be ferreting out the best at the best prices and pass that along because that is where most folks are at financially.

As to guns, I love everyone and will give them the shirt off my back, until they prove me wrong. Just like prepping, the odds are I will never need it.

@Jonathon; That is a whole nuther reason that does not effect the average person or AP. NYC has to be concerned with plastic smoke in high rises. The toxic fumes. That is what killed my dad in a house fire and got me to be a volunteer fireman/rescue for years.  While we consider AP a hot topic, it ain't that kind of hot

[aquaman]

Well I have to say you guys are totally entertaining :)) It is great to have a site like this so much information can be exchanged. I really feel the bottom line is share the knowledge the more ppl that we get to do this the stronger are country and the world will be. Again thx for all your help both of you. You guys are always there with info

[larry poe]

said it once and im going to say it again, this is my favorite thread.

a word about guns since somebody else brought it up.......I grew up rural. in fact in 2007 I took a dog to the finals of the UKC World Hunt.......out of almost 7000 entries we made it to the "top 100". also his daughter, born in my living room, is this years UKC World Show Champ. we are raised to respect guns from a very young age. because of that its very rare to see one used out of context......also my town has NO police. 0 none nada. population is about 200..it can take hours for  a county deputy to even get here as there are only a handful to cover an entire county, in fact this is the first year there has even been a deputy on duty 24hrs a day. that's a whole different world than say inner city Detroit or Chicago.

I think its awesome jeremiah takes the things he finds works and passes that along. making a few bucks along the way is awesome for all his hrs and hrs of "field research".

I also agree with jims point about a lot of times things being "overthunk" KISS (keep it simple stupid) is something we rural folks are brought up to keep in mind no matter the area implied.

this aint my first rodeo, and ive been around myself long enough to know I will make some mistakes before I get it all figured out, however I take pride in knowing that I come from a culture who have long used what they had, and modified it to suite the needs of the moment. theres a reason Hank Jr said " a country boy can survive" .

farming is in our blood, and aquaponics at its base is just another type of farming. nice thing about growing up rural, EVERYTHING you ever learn has implications in everything you are ever going to learn. accualy I think that holds true no matter where you are raised.

[Jeremiah Robinson]

Thanks Aquaman.  This is fun for me too.

I like this: Just like prepping, the odds are I'll never need it.

@Jonathan  That would be a tough one.  NYC is such a unique city in so many ways that it would be tough to find a control.  I think you'd have to study one cancer at a time.  Given all the other crap most people put in their bodies PVC is unlikely to show up.  

The question in my mind is, do fish accumulate PVC-related toxins the way they do other things like mercury?  If the amount of a toxin in the water was negligible, the amount in the fish fillets could be 1000x that. I should ask Don (my friend who used to work with the FDA) what he thinks.

[Jeremiah Robinson]

Great comment Larry.  Loving you rural guys.

Well here's where I sign off to go have a baby.  Wish me luck!

[aquaman]

Yes it really is fun Jim I live in Northern Az the town has about 250. We live outside town on 50 acres There are no city police and would take about a half hr to an hr for the sheriff to show if they were called. There is no power, phone lines, or cable out here. altho we have never had any trouble I keep my guns loaded and close lol. I believe the only reason this country hasn't been invaded is because we are armed to the teeth. Gun control is a firm grip lol. I do now completely believe that aqua ponics can change the world. Jeremiah once I get a little more into this I plan on helping ppl build a system for a small cost and using the cheapest things can bring cost way down. I figure its best to do it for ppl then it will get done and spread the knowledge even further.

[larry poe]

thanks Jeremiah.........good luck with that baby. I have 2 of my own and the oldest is old enough to have 2 of her own and another on the way . being a dad is the best job I ever had.......well accualy a tie with being a grandpa. I love spoiling those and then sending them home to mama
 
Jeremiah Robinson said:

Great comment Larry.  Loving you rural guys.

Well here's where I sign off to go have a baby.  Wish me luck!

[Jim Fisk]

Amen to all. Those odds are thinning with every passing day.

Larry, right on brother. Rural rules. No cops here either unless the Staties decide to set up a speed trap in our one horse town just to say they do exist. Funny, all the roads in to our valley are a favorite with the motor cyclists due to the dizzying switch backs thru the mountains getting here (1000 foot drops with no guard rails in most places, especially the really dangerous ones) and the other day we went "down town" to grab something at the only store in town and we had a crowd of bikers, like at least 100 and my wife said "you better lock the truck" to which I said "I never felt safer in my life".

As far as I know those locked up toxins in PVC don't behave like heavy metals and they need a trauma like Sun or heat to begin to leach so who knows. I worry more about my very bad habit of not wearing a mask when I am knocking out siphons, around 300 now. I do have a very heavy duty vac on each dust maker but ???

Always have been "Proud to be country" Even when I went to Columbia U for EE in the heart of NYC I often had to escape back to my town. Grew up without a neighbor within 5 shouting distances. Lived in the woods. We are back home in Big Forest the way we like it.