Aquaponic Gardening

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Hey all.  This is my first post.  Here is a pic of my system. This really worked out great as the grow beds fully support themselves with no additional bracing.  Nice little system.  This pic is from about 3wks ago and since the growth has been pretty crazy.  I added two supplemental lights to the bed on the right as well.  I currently have about 40 gold fish (feeder) as canarys in the coal mine.  It's cycling now as the Amonnia and Nitrates disappear quick.  I used the Maxicrop to get it going and am still supplimenting with it. A cap or so a day.  I have 2 questions.

1 - What do you do for backup power.  Here in FL power surges are common and it trips the GFI extension I have.  I have seen backup aerators but they are either too small or run all the time.  I just want a backup power source.

2 - Where do you buy fish.  I want catfish as they are sturdy.

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George said:

AGM batteries are sealed and do not require venting.  I have two of them, charged by three 195-watt solar panels.  I do more pumping than the electrical system can keep up with but believe it will work fine as backup with less pumping.  I'm still working it out.  Two long power outages due to hurricanes a few years ago made an impression on me. 

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boat_battery_basics.htm

Actualy if you read your own link and did a bit more reasearch you may decide to vent those batteries.

From your link.

"AGM Batteries

AGM stands for Absorbed Glass Mat which contains the electrolyte absorbed in a mesh of Boron-Silicate glass fibers.

"edited to get under word count"

 They have yet to see much use in boats, probably due to the higher cost. Widely used in battery back up power systems and solar systems.

The down side is the cost of around 2-3 times comparable standard batteries. Thus their greatest benefit is for installations where it is hard or impossible to ventilate charging fumes such as the interiors of sail boats.

Sealed or maintenance-free batteries

This battery type has sealed, but still vented cells because all batteries need to be vented to prevent gas build up and exploding during charging. Will not immediately leak if overturned but will over time. They are designed in such a way as to recover a large portion of the electrolyte that is normally lost through gassing of a normal wet cell. Even so, these batteries will loose electrolyte over time, causing premature failure due to overcharging."


So your link kind of contradicts itself but I think my quote will provide a better idea.

And from another site

they should be vented as per ABYC recommendations. AGM's are SVR (sealed valve regulated) batteries.

- Adequate ventilation should be provided to the bank of batteries to limit the temperature rise during the charging. Sealed valve regulator batteries do allow escape of hydrogen gasses during overcharging; therefore, SVR batteries require the same precautions for ventilation as wet (flooded) batteries.


Maybe the guy is wrong but why risk it he is quoting a standard.

Keep them cool and don't overcharge them and no venting is necessary, regardless of where you get your information.  Otherwise, you should vent. 

No, I won't decide to vent since mine are already well vented, simply due to circumstances. 

And, contrary to your statement, the link I provided doesn't contradict itself.  It's just that you you included information having nothing to do with AGM batteries.  The link contained information about several battery types, including AGM.  I'm not pushing AGM or any other battery type.  Anyone who needs a battery, research it and make your own decision.  Vent or not as you think best.

Jared Mevissen said:


Actualy if you read your own link and did a bit more reasearch you may decide to vent those batteries.

From your link.

"AGM Batteries

AGM stands for Absorbed Glass Mat which contains the electrolyte absorbed in a mesh of Boron-Silicate glass fibers.

"edited to get under word count"

 They have yet to see much use in boats, probably due to the higher cost. Widely used in battery back up power systems and solar systems.

The down side is the cost of around 2-3 times comparable standard batteries. Thus their greatest benefit is for installations where it is hard or impossible to ventilate charging fumes such as the interiors of sail boats.

Sealed or maintenance-free batteries

This battery type has sealed, but still vented cells because all batteries need to be vented to prevent gas build up and exploding during charging. Will not immediately leak if overturned but will over time. They are designed in such a way as to recover a large portion of the electrolyte that is normally lost through gassing of a normal wet cell. Even so, these batteries will loose electrolyte over time, causing premature failure due to overcharging."


So your link kind of contradicts itself but I think my quote will provide a better idea.

Seemed a pretty clear contradiction to me when it says "All batteries must be vented" but anyhow I can see your point I would just rather be safe than sorry. Batteries don't last forever no matter what kind you buy there's always a chance of a failure.

Yes, you're right.  What I really have on my mind right now is biting the bullet and paying top dollar for a high quality fish food, a food that is entirely digestible instead of only partially digestible such as the one I'm presently using.  It only costs four times as much to go first class but it seems like the right thing to do.  Actually, when I think about what I've invested thus far, going cheap on fish food doesn't make much sense.  Cheers.

Jared Mevissen said:

Seemed a pretty clear contradiction to me when it says "All batteries must be vented" but anyhow I can see your point I would just rather be safe than sorry. Batteries don't last forever no matter what kind you buy there's always a chance of a failure.

If you charge the battery with an automatic battery charger you can run full time off the inverter. No need for anything more elaborate like a relay. In a power outage it just keeps running off the battery and starts charging again when power is back up. You will want to check the rating on the inverter. It will need to be 100% duty cycle rated. Otherwise what TC said.

BTW golf cart batteries are by far the best bang for your buck (50.00 to 60.00 for "seconds" from any large battery store) and boast far more power. I got an APC 1400 UPS for my photography and replaced their puny 2 12v bats with 4 golf cart bats and had one hell of a BU system. You don't need a perfect sinewave inverter for AP (like an UPS) so a standard 400/800 inverter (30.00 at HF)  is all I use on the AP system and I would advise a pair of golf cart bats for any long outages. You can make an enclosure and a tube vent to outside if you're in the house. In a GH there is no need really. Just keep sparks and open flames away or big bang and destroyed battery. Been there done that that gas is also called HHO or Brown's gas. Neat stuff.

As to Catfish I thought the same thing "sturdy". Now that I went from 40 down to 1 while my Trout have done fine I guess I was wrong. The dirt garden is now well fertilized with catfish.
TCLynx said:

For backup power, get a deep cycle battery a battery charger and an inverter (get a much bigger one than you think you need) and you can plug your air pumps into that.  Heck with a small system like that you could probably run your system pump on it too but a switch over relay that would only use the battery power when mains power was out would probably be a good idea.

I learned it does pay to spend a bit extra on an inverter that is rated to survive your environment.  My first good inverter turned out not to be up to the task of running in a hot Florida Garage and after dealing with warranty replacement twice I searched online to find one that could stand the heat a little better (and my garage was cooler than any greenhouse would have been.)

I did find that I preferred to run off of mains power and only actually use the battery power when the power failed (did some wiring and used a relay for this.)  That way I could just leave the battery on a float charger most of the time and I would only need to switch to full re-charge if the power was out for long enough to drain the batter a bit.  The battery charger I originally had died after I was running full time from the inverter for a while.  Seems that battery charger wasn't rated for 100% duty cycle in the hot garage either.

Your battery charger needs to be strong enough to keep the battery charged up while the battery is supplying the power for your uses, that is not always easy to find.  And if there is a power out for a time and the battery charge gets low then when the power comes back on the job for the charger is even harder.  A charger that can sense and switch between charging methods might be good but they tend to cost more and both of the ones I've had that could do that also required that I go out and press a button when the power comes back on to get them started.

I went from 60 catfish to two once.  A year later I killed the two.  Lessons can be painful for me but worse for the fish.  Bluegill were mostly unaffected the first time but I killed 95 in the second incident.

Jim Fisk said:

As to Catfish I thought the same thing "sturdy". Now that I went from 40 down to 1 while my Trout have done fine I guess I was wrong. 

Good stuff and a voice from experience. There is no substitute

I keep my electrics in my cooler fish room but I have noticed about a 50F change in even the air compressor temp between a hot and a cold day already, so yeah. OOPS, out of power on computer. Later.

TCLynx said:

I learned it does pay to spend a bit extra on an inverter that is rated to survive your environment.  My first good inverter turned out not to be up to the task of running in a hot Florida Garage and after dealing with warranty replacement twice I searched online to find one that could stand the heat a little better (and my garage was cooler than any greenhouse would have been.)

I did find that I preferred to run off of mains power and only actually use the battery power when the power failed (did some wiring and used a relay for this.)  That way I could just leave the battery on a float charger most of the time and I would only need to switch to full re-charge if the power was out for long enough to drain the batter a bit.  The battery charger I originally had died after I was running full time from the inverter for a while.  Seems that battery charger wasn't rated for 100% duty cycle in the hot garage either.

Your battery charger needs to be strong enough to keep the battery charged up while the battery is supplying the power for your uses, that is not always easy to find.  And if there is a power out for a time and the battery charge gets low then when the power comes back on the job for the charger is even harder.  A charger that can sense and switch between charging methods might be good but they tend to cost more and both of the ones I've had that could do that also required that I go out and press a button when the power comes back on to get them started.

We have a generator with an automatic transfer switch to switch all the critical items over to the generator if the power goes out, and back to line power when it comes back on.  It runs on natural gas, so it should be able to run almost forever (unless the gas supply stops) without having to refuel it in the middle of the night in the dead of winter.  

Right after we installed it, not wired up to the building yet.  

50kw of 3-phase power.  A 6-cylinder Hercules with a Kohler generator and DynaGen electronic controller.

Nice David!

A bit hard to take advantage of the 3 phase however. I assume 208v across poles? Or can you rewire it for 240v? I am still after a diesel gen. We use a 4500w gas gen for long outages but off grid is still the dream. Easy if $ is no object. But if the term "payback" means something it is still a long ways off. Solar panels are usually burned out long before payback is achieved. Something our President likes to ignore as he blows our tax dollars on his dream. One big advantage at our new place in the mountains is our artesian well which needs no pump. A big factor that was the icing on the cake when we found this place. Between that, wood heat, and gas cooking we are a lot closer to achieving off grid than ever before. Now to replace that energy hungry plasma tv with an led model and we'll be even closer:-)

David - WI said:

We have a generator with an automatic transfer switch to switch all the critical items over to the generator if the power goes out, and back to line power when it comes back on.  It runs on natural gas, so it should be able to run almost forever (unless the gas supply stops) without having to refuel it in the middle of the night in the dead of winter.  

Right after we installed it, not wired up to the building yet.  

50kw of 3-phase power.  A 6-cylinder Hercules with a Kohler generator and DynaGen electronic controller.

It's 240v,  All of our pumps, compressors, coolers, etc are 3-phase.

Ahh, we're not talking about your home then obviously

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