Covering an IBC fish tank.

[Dick Jones]

I am using a 275 gallon IBC for a fish tank. Do I need to cover it from light. What do I cover it with? Do I need to cover the surface of the water with anything?

[Jim Fisk]

Melons and other hot loving crops will do fine in warmer weather. I doubt they will be happy in Winter. The only hot crop we attempted was Tomatoes and they did very well so far but have been hindered more by white flies and fungus gnats than anything else. Sunlight plays a big part with lots of plants so unless you plan on lights I would just go by the time of year and chose wisely.

Dottie Kinn said:

Good info.....however, one can only eat so many greens....  Perhaps I'm not asking the question right *~*  Can one successfully grow plants such as melons, tomatoes, green beans, legumes, etc. if the water temp. is in 60s or thereabouts.  I'd prefer to germinate in the expanded shale and this is my concern, that nothing will germinate or won't grow well. Just finished a 36 pg. article someone sent about walleye--they like low 70s temps--so that will help considerably.

[Pat James]

Tomatoes can grow in the 60-70 range but do not germinate well with lower temps. They do best with a temp of 70, and peppers a little higher. Plus peppers tend to need moisture to get 'activated' then need to be fairly dry or at least not wet to avoid rotting. My suggestion is to germinate some of these plants in a tiny bit of soil inside and then transplant the seedling to the growbed when conditions are right.

Dottie Kinn said:

Good info.....however, one can only eat so many greens....  Perhaps I'm not asking the question right *~*  Can one successfully grow plants such as melons, tomatoes, green beans, legumes, etc. if the water temp. is in 60s or thereabouts.  I'd prefer to germinate in the expanded shale and this is my concern, that nothing will germinate or won't grow well. Just finished a 36 pg. article someone sent about walleye--they like low 70s temps--so that will help considerably.

[TCLynx]

If you hate messing with soil while dealing with germinating the tricky slow plants, then you might look at doing peat or coir pellets to have a tidy way to transplant them later and a relatively clean way to deal with the seedlings indoors.  Get a heat mat and humidity dome and if you will keep them inside beyond just breaking the seed coat, then you will need to place the seed tray in a brightly lit area or put an appropriate grow light over them so they don't get weak and leggy before getting transplanted out.

I've found in my HOT climate during the warmer seasons I need to germinate my lettuce indoors in the AC if I want to grow lettuce through the summer.  I did manage to grow the lettuce through the summer last year but I found very strange poor germination patterns if I set the seed trays outdoors before the initial three days was up.  In winter here I'm able to germinate things like tomatoes and eggplant if I start them in the seed trays on the heat mat with a dome over it.  Once the plants are up and growing I've been moving them outdoors and with minimal protection from frost they have been surviving the freezes we have had lately.  I've even got a couple tomato plants that have really been enjoying the winter and producing well here totally out from under cover.  Producing quite well actually, I think perhaps because of the cold nights (come summer here tomatoes have difficulty producing because they like a differential in temperature between day and night and in a hot humid climate it tends not to cool off enough at night and be too hot during the day to tomatoes to produce well here.)

I had difficulty growing stuff in a greenhouse here because the spider mites would take hold in the winter because the greenhouse would get too hot during the day but still get cold at night and it would be dry inside and I didn't have good automatic ventilation or heating so the plants suffered and pests took over.  Some Automatic heating and ventilation control I think is very important to a functional greenhouse.

[Jim Fisk]

Chiming in here again I find it very interesting how different GH critter problems vary from region to region. Jon Parr just got hit by white flies and some sort of moth in WA because he accepted some free plants and he is one of my gurus so it can happen to anyone. I actually purchased my bugs at a local GH in town. At least his were free

I believe fore warned is fore armed. If you plan a GH I would definitely join the GH group on here and try and find someone experienced in your area and learn. I have taken to fly tape all around the inside edges of my GBs (that's 20 tapes at a time for 5 gbs) and Gnat-trol. I leave a few stunted (from insect damage) plants in the gbs as a way of monitoring my progress. When they start growing new leaves and looking better I know I am winning. I am sure Summer will bring a whole new set of challenges. I plan on opening the GH walls and letting natural predators do their thing. I have yet to see any spider mites or fungus moths around here but time will tell. Mountain life has it's own unique set of critters I'm sure.

BTW all fly tapes are not created equal. I really like the Black Flag at .97 per 4 and hate the Raid tapes at 1.15 per 4. The Raid fall apart and are very hard to handle and want to coil up again while the Black Flag are a pleasure to deal with. One Walmart has BF and another will have Raid. When dealing with 20 - 40 tapes at a time it becomes a pretty big deal, that difference. I would estimate that I have captured somewhere in the billions based upon what those tapes look like by the time I replace them Good news is I am winning.

TCLynx said:

I had difficulty growing stuff in a greenhouse here because the spider mites would take hold in the winter because the greenhouse would get too hot during the day but still get cold at night and it would be dry inside and I didn't have good automatic ventilation or heating so the plants suffered and pests took over.  Some Automatic heating and ventilation control I think is very important to a functional greenhouse.

[TCLynx]

YES YES.  +1 there Jim.  Greenhouse design and function are VERY dependent on location/climate.  What works in one place most certainly may or may not have any bearing on another.

On the fly tape note.  Yes I expect that different types/brands will function very differently (also remember that some things like this may have a short shelf life so it might not pay to stock up too much if half the tapes are going to rip instead of pull out of the tubes.)  You might also look at yellow sticky cards or it is possible to make your own.  You can get a tub of tree tanglefoot to smear on yellow cards or strips of paper that might serve well for some pests.  Beware, watch where you hang such things if you are hanging them, it really sucks to get sticky buggy stuff stuck in your hair.

[Jim Fisk]

Just to reiterate: Without going into any more detail on the tapes I would have to say that EVERYTHING about the Raid tapes sucks, while the Black Flag are a pleasure to work with. On the hair thing OMG

I have done the yellow traps and I can't see any advantage side by side and they tend to cost much more. I like the 12" x 8' (guessing) white rolled up tapes with the flies printed all over (8.00 each)(yes they are social buggers and tend to flow with the pack, sounds familiar) but as soon as the cheap old tapes start to catch the dumber ones all the others follow along. In a week they will be solid bugs and the "No Vacancy" sign should lite up Kidding!

Still wondering what happened to the 300 Lady Bugs I paid about 35.00 for delivered "On Sale". Not showing up in the traps at least.

[Dottie Kinn]

It isn't so much the dirt that I mind as I love getting my hands in soil! It's that I haven't mastered the art of germinating, then successfully transplanting. I suspect it was the lack of grow lights. Thanks for the info and I'll probably try both methods and see which work best.

Bugs bugs bugs..... when we lived in GA, ladybugs used to swarm inside our house (NOT greenhouse). I ignored them until they started dropping onto my face from the ceiling in the middle of the night. Then I declared war. It seems the area where we lived was where they overwintered after migrating. Picture your windows covered with a solid mass of ladybugs. As much as I love them, this was simply too much!!

Thanks so much everyone for all the good information. I'll definitely hook up with the greenhouse group because I've never had one.

TCLynx said:

If you hate messing with soil while dealing with germinating the tricky slow plants, then you might look at doing peat or coir pellets to have a tidy way to transplant them later and a relatively clean way to deal with the seedlings indoors.  Get a heat mat and humidity dome and if you will keep them inside beyond just breaking the seed coat, then you will need to place the seed tray in a brightly lit area or put an appropriate grow light over them so they don't get weak and leggy before getting transplanted out.

I've found in my HOT climate during the warmer seasons I need to germinate my lettuce indoors in the AC if I want to grow lettuce through the summer.  I did manage to grow the lettuce through the summer last year but I found very strange poor germination patterns if I set the seed trays outdoors before the initial three days was up.  In winter here I'm able to germinate things like tomatoes and eggplant if I start them in the seed trays on the heat mat with a dome over it.  Once the plants are up and growing I've been moving them outdoors and with minimal protection from frost they have been surviving the freezes we have had lately.  I've even got a couple tomato plants that have really been enjoying the winter and producing well here totally out from under cover.  Producing quite well actually, I think perhaps because of the cold nights (come summer here tomatoes have difficulty producing because they like a differential in temperature between day and night and in a hot humid climate it tends not to cool off enough at night and be too hot during the day to tomatoes to produce well here.)

I had difficulty growing stuff in a greenhouse here because the spider mites would take hold in the winter because the greenhouse would get too hot during the day but still get cold at night and it would be dry inside and I didn't have good automatic ventilation or heating so the plants suffered and pests took over.  Some Automatic heating and ventilation control I think is very important to a functional greenhouse.

[Brad Moreau]

Jim Fisk said:

I'm running at 12% battery but I will get back to you on this. For me Trout have been by far the easiest and most rewarding in terms of fun at feeding time and especially losses (deaths). Bluegills were a disaster. Ch. Cats almost as bad. I buried the 275 gal sump as a temp buffer for cooler fish. Summer? who knows. We'll know soon

[Brad Moreau]

Jim,

trying to design system to use trout in warm temp, any pointers, i live in Oceanside ca average temp 70 to 80 on hot days

was thinking about 1 1/2 '" foam w/spray foam around my tote & cooling my return line by using 1/2 soft copper ran through an old refridgerator ( like a keg cooler). was wondering about how the plants would take the 65* water ? just kickin the can right now, any input

thanks Brad

[TCLynx]

Don't put your system water in contact with any metals like copper, it will leach into the system and build up to levels toxic to fish.

To figure out if your system will maintain a temperature cool enough for trout, it would be necessary to know the average temperatures or how much it cools off at night to know how problematic the average daytime highs are going to be.  Simply insulating the fish tank will only provide minimal help since the air temperatures around the plant growing area are going to have a huge impact on water temperatures.

It might make more sense to look into some form of integrated aquaculture where you could keep the recirculating fish system in an air conditioned space and exchange water to the integrated hydroponic space when temperatures are not going to be problematic (light early in the morning or at night.)

[Jim Fisk]

Hey Brad,

First off no copper with fish. Very toxic. I was planning on running the sump water thru an old freezer if it turns out I need more cold. That remains to be seen. I don't think you'll have a plant problem at that temp. The stone media suck up the sun and provide warmth. This will be our first Summer so who knows. The foam sounds perfect.

Brad Moreau said:

Jim,

trying to design system to use trout in warm temp, any pointers, i live in Oceanside ca average temp 70 to 80 on hot days

was thinking about 1 1/2 '" foam w/spray foam around my tote & cooling my return line by using 1/2 soft copper ran through an old refridgerator ( like a keg cooler). was wondering about how the plants would take the 65* water ? just kickin the can right now, any input

thanks Brad

[Jim Fisk]

I should have added that my 275 gal sump is buried all the way so I am using the ambient soil temps (about 55F here) to help regulate the system both Summer and Winter. I set it right on the ground and in the ground with no insulation and back filled it right to the top so I have good contact. In the Summer I may trickle soak the ground around it for more contact cooling effect as well as some evaporative cooling. There are lots of ways of controlling temps if you keep the fish separated from the hot house. Commercial chillers tend to be very expensive but used freezers can be cheap. Regretfully I threw out a chiller a few years back as I had no use for it and we were moving. They can be energy hogs anyway though.

Below you can see the buried sump in the foreground and last of 5 FTs in the background during construction. Be sure and use sand or sifted soil under the sump IBC to avoid damage from sharp stones as it gets real heavy when full (2000#)

I tied the entire structure to the heavy tanks and grow beds in anticipation of high winds. We haven't had a tornado here in over 60 yrs but they have hit Bristol on one side and Mtn City on the other in the last 3 yrs.. If the skin blows off that's an easy fix but I doubt the structure is going anywhere fast.

Brad Moreau said:

Jim,

trying to design system to use trout in warm temp, any pointers, i live in Oceanside ca average temp 70 to 80 on hot days

was thinking about 1 1/2 '" foam w/spray foam around my tote & cooling my return line by using 1/2 soft copper ran through an old refridgerator ( like a keg cooler). was wondering about how the plants would take the 65* water ? just kickin the can right now, any input

thanks Brad