Need Help Picking HID System

[Heather N]

Hi everyone!  I'm in the process of mentally setting up my first aquaponics system.  My husband finally let me have a goldfish tank if I put in in the basement (since I have multiple tank syndrome).  Then he said, "Hey wouldn't it be neat if we could grow food from it?"  He watched one those episodes of Doomsday Preppers and thought it was neat.  While we can't grow much off of a 29 gallon tank, as an engineer I couldn't pass up the though of dabbling in something new for fun.  I'm a bit stumped on lighting though...

It seems like HID is the best way to go from my research.  Can I run one safely in a basement?  Can anyone recommend what I should get for a 2.5 x 2 ft grow bed (I read I should need about 250 watts for this size grow bed if that accurate)?  I'd like it to be semi affordable if that's possible; I just have no idea what I am looking for!  Also, if I plan on doing a combination of fruits and vegetation, is one spectrum bulb better over another in this case?  

[Jim Fisk]

No argument. BUT can you get a small HID? Say 100W? Still the cost! CFLs are just PLs with an electronic ballast built into each one. So when you throw one out (better read the fine print first) you are throwing the solid state ballast out with it. It is one of the biggest "Green" scams around. Funny, as I write this a big news story about my old Cape Cod. The 2 wind turbines that cost 10 mil to install in Falmouth are being taken down at a cost of 10 - 15 mil because of the low frequency pulse from the blades is making local citizens sick. This very expensive Green fad needs to slow down and get real.

Nice day, we just had a 60mph gust. I can't wait to replace that 4 mil poly on the GH roof. Tougher than I ever could have imagined though.

If I had a 2' x 2.5' GB I would get a used commercial "Troffer" light from a commercial electrician. It takes 4 four foot flour. bulbs and has a solid plastic cover and are used by the millions in office ceilings. 4 grow lights and you should be all set. What can you grow in that space? 6 heads of lettuce? There should be some attempt at making sense in terms of $ spent per head. OOPS, battery dead again., Later.

[Jim Fisk]

Please keep in mind we are talking about this particular 2' x 2.5' GB. Lots of posts while I was writing Sorry I should have done a "reply" Last I heard. about a week ago,...

Getting my posts clipped again. There was more. No time. It went away.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Yup, you can buy 100 Watt HID's...or 150...175...250...

Regardless of what tube you use...you'll need to replace those tubes every 6 months or so (even if they look fine to your human eyes) because PAR drastically begins to fall off...compare that with 2 years for an HID bulb...

Shit, I said I wasn't going to get sucked into one of these discussions again... :)

So how many Watts do those 4 four foot tubes use?...and at 4 times the replacement frequency...and at only a mere fraction of actual plant usable light..? And have fun keeping the tubes to within an inch or two from the tops of your plants...Fluoros really do pretty much suck long term (and in the short term...only slightly less so). Mine have all been delegated to seedlings only. and even there, I'm phasing them out with small wattage HID's. It's just plain 'ol cheaper and they give better results to boot.

[Jim Fisk]

LED's off Ebay would be my bet. Thanks to pot growers we do have so many choices. Thankfully I don't use grow lights myself but right after we switch our TV to LED I might go for one. I have cases of HID 150w bulbs and assorted housings as well as cases of 4' and 8' fluor bulbs having been in the business for years. Electronic ballasts do help with some of the probs you refer to. And at 400 hz they are now easy on the eyes. But I hear U

[Vlad Jovanovic]

I was talking about photosynthetically active radiation, not so much operating hertz...only tri-phosphor standard tubes really help with that (CRI and it's effect on incidental PAR...more incidental than manufacturer's intent, I imagine)...and only for about 6 months of use. Again, they will look just fine (like the day you bought them) to your human eyes. Hz is fine...it's PAR that becomes the limiter...

[Jim Fisk]

As usual you are the source. Sucks to be you but great for the rest of us.

BTW my CFL warning was more for general lighting over and around the FTs & GBs as opposed to actual GLs. We are so accustomed to using them I found myself putting them in the FT room before I thought WAIT A MINUTE and went to find my stash of good old bulbs. I bet there are lots of AP'rs out there that do use them without envisioning what could happen. What a horror show one speck of mercury would create. I think and hope that LEDs will get reasonable (or some other newer tech) and the CFLs will just go away. I do use a lot of them but the mercury/food thing is just wrong.

I am aware of the par problem but never having used grow lights I was unaware of the related problems. Makes perfect sense. The Hz again is a human issue. Eye strain and headaches associated with the 60Hz ballasts went away with the solid state 400Hz ballasts.

Vlad Jovanovic said:

I was talking about photosynthetically active radiation, not so much operating hertz...only tri-phosphor standard tubes really help with that (CRI and it's effect on incidental PAR...more incidental than manufacturer's intent, I imagine)...and only for about 6 months of use. Again, they will look just fine (like the day you bought them) to your human eyes. Hz is fine...it's PAR that becomes the limiter...

[Jim Fisk]

This little vid might answer some questions:

[Heather N]

Everyone, thank you so much. I just generally get nervous as we have low ceilings in the basement with exposed wooden beams (you know, a typical unfinished basement). I will be sure to include ventilation/a fan either way with the setup. Thanks for all of the links. I think I'll stick with the HID after all. Alex, I really like the look of that one. I'm not very electrically savvy, so that might be a good answer for me, especially since it is air cooled (as recommended by Steven). Thank you again!

[Heather N]

Oh also, I am only looking at a 250 watt HID lighting system. I'd prefer to grill my veggies on the grill after I've grown them!

[Alex Veidel]

Speaking of grilling veggies...Have you ever tried grilled beets? Sorry, I realize that was off-topic.

Heather N said:

Oh also, I am only looking at a 250 watt HID lighting system. I'd prefer to grill my veggies on the grill after I've grown them!

[Bob Terrell]

grilled beets?

[Jim Fisk]

Thanks to all on this thread. I feel up to speed on lights. It has been quite a few years since I was involved heavily in lighting and a lot has changed. You have me taking a new look at all the HIDs I have kicking around here should I decide to take the plunge. (I still have 3 complete units sitting in their boxes) I tend to think of my AP system more as a "Prepper" project than a commercial one so I try and avoid any more grid dependency but who knows. It might be worth it in the Winter to push things a bit faster. I do get a monthly usage report from my better half Grilled beets ehh? Sounds interesting.
BTW 250 watts is about what my entire 2000 gal AP system runs on now so that would double my usage with just one light. Just say'n.