They found E.coli in my test report what do I do now?

[Joe Bifano]

I just sent in samples on my fish tanks and water coming from my sink to see what I had. I have 2 separate fish tanks and raft systems. My potable water had no coliform present. Then I sent in 2 samples for E.Coli and Salmonella. Both fish tanks had not detected on the Salmonella and on the E.coli it was >1600 MPN/100ml.

The test they did for E.coli was called ESCHERICHIA COLI SM9221 F.

I called them and asked what it meant and the lab person said that all of the test tubes had greater than 1600. They cannot go higher than 2 he said.  I am completely confused.

There is no way that I have not been careful with any animals in the greenhouse or using anything other than worms in one of my beds. Washing my hands all the time and not using anything in my system.

Now what do I do?

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Very cool if a decent and relatively painless solution exists..!

Joe Bifano said:

I read or thought I heard on a video from Glen Martinez that he had this problem and he used EM or BEM or BIM not sure though.  I emailed him but have not heard yet on what he did. I am still trying to find the video I saw. If one of those will work and not crash the bio-filter I will give it a try. I want to get my own test kit for E.Coli to see what results I get now so I can see them and then when they get removed not see them and get my system tested again from the lab and make sure they are all gone.

[Joe Bifano]

I will order the E.Coli test kit and test my fish tanks and see what I get. Then I will rinse my fish feed with water and test the fish feed water for E.Coli. I will rinse my lava rock and test that in a couple of places. I still have some in large bins and see what I get in the rinse water on E.Coli. I will do what Rupert and Vlad is saying about finding the source and let everyone know. 

Then if I get a product or it can run its coarse and the E.Coli leaves I will find out by testing it.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

That's a plan :)

[Converse]

Have you fed any outside sources of feed?  Treats?  Have you had slugs in your greenhouse?  They can carry E. coli.

[Joe Bifano]

Converse, no on the outside sources of feed just the Purina Fish Chow and the Purina Aquamax. I had a strange looking thing in my lava rock on one side of my system that I could not identify when I redid a gravel bed. I took out the lava rock and let it stand for a few days before I put it back in again and it had yellow little things in the lava rock. They did not look like a slug but then I was not sure.  I was taking out the lava rock and getting the worms I had in it out and back into my other lava bio-filters. Do worms reproduce eggs or do they have baby worms? If that was not eggs then I could have had a slug. I will go up to a gravel bed I have today and see if I have them anymore. If I do I will take a photo of them and post them on this post. If I have slugs I hope that the EM or BIM will eliminate the E.Coli.

[Bob Vento]

SHEESH guys.

I am guilty of using Lava rock from Home Depot (bought in bags, and washed) and red worms from a reputable worm farm out of state in my grow bed.

Do I need to be worried about e coli?
What are the signs and symptoms to look for.
Plants and fish are growing and thriving at present ever since the beginning of June I've only lost 1 tilapia.

Regards,
Bob

[Joe Bifano]

The only way I found out I had it was I had to do a Food Safety check on everything and one was to check my water and there it was.

As far as the signs of it you could look that up on a website for an exact description. I have seen were it can cause diarrhea, vomiting and things like the flew. There is generic and the higher forms of E.Coli.

Now that I have it I am making sure with a test kit to see it and find the source and then get rid of it. 

[Converse]

Hi All,

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Yeah, imagine if your pepper plants start puking that's a sure sign Bob :)  ...seriously though I don't think you'd be able to tell something like that based on visual cues. It's not a thing that afffects plants, and cold blooded animals like fish are not carriers...you can be pretty sure your the deceased tilapia was not done in by e. coli...

Hi Converse.

[Joe Bifano]

I agree it would be more like you got splashed by a fish and you took in a lot of water and then got sick from the water you took in. You would need to test the fish waters with a kit for sure.

[Converse]

Not sure what happened above, so I will start over...

 

   It seems there is fodder for starting another "Oh no! Its the worms!" panic.  So it is time for me to step out in boldness and tell you all not to worry about the redworms introduced in your AP systems.  'Sure', you may think...'This person is a redworm farmer, of course that person would state this.'   I have no interest in introducing E. coli to my family, via the crops we grow, and we use redworms havily in all our farming processes.  Also it serves me no good to purposely spout bad information publicly, if I wish to survive as a reputable redworm farmer.

You do not have to take my word for it though. See the research below:

1)

The first is from Dr. Clive Edwards, the world respected vermiculture expert .

http://www.recycledorganics.com/publications/reports/vermlitreview/...

 

5.8.4 Pathogens

There is increasing evidence that human pathogen species of microorganisms, are

selectively culled by earthworms (Dominguez, 1997; Doube and Brown, 1998;

Scarborough, 1999), and pathogens such as Escherichia coli and Salmonella sp. do not

survive vermicomposting (Edwards and Bohlen, 1996). Dominguez (1997), conducting

trials with small-scale continuous flow reactors using biosolid feedstocks, found that faecal

coliform bacteria dropped from 39,000 MPN/g to 0 MPN/g after 60 days vermicomposting.

2)

The second is from a research paper that has some very heavy reading .  Here is the Link:

http://webs.uvigo.es/jdguez/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Reduction-of...

   The research involved feeding pig slurry to redworms.  And measuring the load of E. coli before and after being processed by redworms. 

If you don't want to wade through the paper (I did) , here is the conclusion quoted from the lab experiment:

"Overall, we conclude that the passage of pig slurry through the gut of E. fetida can cause die-off of the total coliform population."

 

  We are not using pig slurry in AP systems...but this research paper above should give you a sense of relief. using redworms in your AP system.   In this experiment, they even checked thethe fecal matter (castings) coming out of the gut of the redworm. No E. coli being pooped out of the redworms.....Redworms would not be the culprit in introducing them into an AP system, media bed.

 

     I hope this settles this worry about using redworms in your AP system.  It should also help eliminate one more possibility you need to look into that may have caused the E. Coli reading.   And you may count your blessings here.  Those redworms will be working to actually eliminate the E. coli load that is there....now to just find out where it came from.

 

I wish you the best!

 

- Converse

 

[Converse]

  Well, I am not sure what those yellow things were you are referring to.  A picture would be helpful.  Even if I don't know what it is, someone here might be able to identify it.  Just by description, could the yellow stuff have been slime-mold?

   Redworms in your AP system will deposit cocoons.  They will look like grape seeds in size and shape, and vary in color from pearlescent yellow/green to red-ish (when they are close to hatching).  They usually hatch about 3 weeks after being deposited. When redworms emerge from the cocoons, they are often lacking in a true 'red' pigment, which soon changes, and of course they are smaller versions of their adult parent.

Hopefully this is helpful.

 

- Converse
 
Joe Bifano said:

Converse, no on the outside sources of feed just the Purina Fish Chow and the Purina Aquamax. I had a strange looking thing in my lava rock on one side of my system that I could not identify when I redid a gravel bed. I took out the lava rock and let it stand for a few days before I put it back in again and it had yellow little things in the lava rock. They did not look like a slug but then I was not sure.  I was taking out the lava rock and getting the worms I had in it out and back into my other lava bio-filters. Do worms reproduce eggs or do they have baby worms? If that was not eggs then I could have had a slug. I will go up to a gravel bed I have today and see if I have them anymore. If I do I will take a photo of them and post them on this post. If I have slugs I hope that the EM or BIM will eliminate the E.Coli.