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Greenhouse heat and electricity

Hi everyone,

I started with a question, Why cant we generate the electricity for the greenhouse and use the "waste" heat to heat the greenhouse? It looks like we can. I have been working on an idea of using a pellet stove to heat the greenhouse. I didnt like the idea that it required electricity to run the stove. I asked why cant the stove generate its own electricity? I found out that it can, but the manufacturers believe that it is too cost prohibitive. So I have been researching my own means of accomplishing this goal. I have settled on two possibilities and I have an engineer helping me with both. We are looking at either a Stirling engine, or a steam engine. Both can generate ample power to run the stove as well as probably enough to run all the greenhouse operations. I also like the idea that I can make my own fuel for the stove using a hammer mill to grind up the material and a pellet mill to produce the pellets. The pellets can be made of almost any bio-mass. I have seven forested acres which provides tons of windfall waste for making fuel. Our goal is to have a proto-type up and running this winter. I am eager to hear your thoughts, ideas, and input. Thanks.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ted grace on February 5, 2011 at 7:51am

Rick,
I am new to the forum and I was wondering about your progress with the greenhouse heating ideas...I have been looking at the rocket stove mass heater..http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp Did you look at these options?

Permalink Reply by Rick Stillwagon on February 5, 2011 at 9:34am

I looked at the heater you mentioned. That is interesting. I am working on a system that generates the electricity required by the system as well as heating. Settled on a boiler and engine design. And we are assembling the equipment and collecting materials now. The goal is to be off the grid and using local biomass fuels.

Ted grace said:

Rick,
I am new to the forum and I was wondering about your progress with the greenhouse heating ideas...I have been looking at the rocket stove mass heater..http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp Did you look at these options?

Permalink Reply by Ted grace on February 5, 2011 at 10:13am

That is very interesting....how will you fire the boiler? wood?

Permalink Reply by Rick Stillwagon on February 5, 2011 at 5:22pm

Biomass pellets. Biomass is organic material such as: leaves, branches, weeds, corn stalks, etc. that has been shredded in a hammermill then formed into pellets in a pellet mill. Wood pellets are common here, but with a pellet mill I can produce my own from yard waste, reducing my cost further. The steam engine will run the hammer mill, pellet mill and generator, By use of pulleys and belts. Old factories were run just this way in the past. They had a large steam engine that turned a shaft that ran through the factory. Belts would be added or subtracte to accomodate equipment as needed.

Ted grace said:

That is very interesting....how will you fire the boiler? wood?

Permalink Reply by Rectorcain on February 8, 2011 at 10:04am

I have just installed 2 pellet stoves in my 20x36 greenhouse. Home Depot end of season sale, normally 1499.00 but got them for 999.00. Costs about 8 bucks a day to heat the greenhouse and I am at 7000 feet elevation. Last week -22 below outside. I am happy with them, so far that is. Watching to see if eventually humidity will have an adverse effect on them. They seem to be helping with lowering the humidity at night.

Permalink Reply by Joe Bifano on February 25, 2011 at 12:38pm

Rick you are doing exactly what I have been wanting to do. I also have looked at the hammer mill and pellet mill because I am surrounded by 100's of acres of woods. I get wood for the home and shop fire places now but would love to use pellets in the greenhouse and make my own pellets. I would think that we could use pine needles and pine cones in it as well and I have tons of it.

How is it going on the steam engine idea? If there is anything that I could do to help in research I would help. I would like to build this exact same thing and get off the grid on the greenhouse and someday the house. Will you be able to share in what you are doing and what is working?

Permalink Reply by Rick Stillwagon on February 25, 2011 at 3:27pm

I hope to have the system running this year. My biggest obstacle is the availability of the steam components. A boiler and engine of the size needed is expensive because they are not mass produced locally. I have found suitable boilers that are made in China and Europe. We seem to be behind the rest of the world in the use of bio-mass and have reduced our use of steam to the hobby or massive industrial level. I have found suitably sized steam engines in the hobby steamer market. I just worry about reliability and repair. So, this brings me to where I am going now. I have a friend that is an aerospace engineer and we are working on an engine design that we can build and repair economically. Unfortunately, it will be labor intensive meaning the resale will probably not be practical. But I will be documenting everything for those that wish to follow in my foot steps. I have a relatively well equipped wood and metal working shop, so for those that do not, they will have to farm out most of the work, again increasing overall cost. I have talked with a manufacturer in China about distribution of their equipment in the US. But there is quite a bit of red tape to cut through to get their boilers approved for use here. Stay in touch and I will keep you updated.

Permalink Reply by Steve Perreault on March 21, 2011 at 10:13am

I read this discussion awhile ago with much interest. Recently I stumbled upon an existing product called a "Micro CHP" that does what you've been talking about. CHP (Combined Heat and Power) is another name for co-generation and has been used by industry for years. This Micro version is the first of it's type for the average house. It uses a natural gas fueled internal combustion engine to generate electricity. The waste heat of the engine is fed into the heating system of the house. They claim efficiencies of 85% and is controlable over the internet. There's an option to so that it acts a back-up generator for when the power goes out - very cool! I haven't checked into prices yet - I wouldn't be able to afford it yet this year anyways, as I'm putting up a new greenhouse within a few weeks. Check them out at --> Freewatt.com

Currently, it's only available for natural gas which is good and bad. Good cause natural gas prices are relatively stable. Bad cause NG is not what some greenhouse owners would want to use as a fuel.

Permalink Reply by Rick Stillwagon on March 21, 2011 at 12:28pm

Well I have been moving forward. I found a steam engine in India, I will be purchasing it in a few weeks. The boiler will still be fired with biomass, cant beat free... for fuel costs. Also local availability is eternal here, weeds, grass, etc. never stop growing here. I want to be free of the fuel and power mongers... lol. I just acquired a great deal of recycled tempered glass (and have a steady supply for future projects) that will enclose the structure I posted pictures of earlier. I have an engineer designing the boiler, we think the output will heat my house, shop, and greenhouse. I also came up with a way to cycle the water without water pumps, so my electric consumption will be nearly non-existent. This way I can use solar power to run what littler mechanical I have during the summer and stockpile my biomass fuel for the winter. I hope to have it all operational by this summer or fall. I have one investor and I think I have another on board that is very interested in marketing the whole system. I will let you know how it goes! Take care.

Permalink Reply by Tom Barnhardt on March 23, 2011 at 6:43pm

Has anyone tried heating a greenhouse using hot water generated from a compost pile?

Rick Stillwagon said:

Well I have been moving forward. I found a steam engine in India, I will be purchasing it in a few weeks. The boiler will still be fired with biomass, cant beat free... for fuel costs. Also local availability is eternal here, weeds, grass, etc. never stop growing here. I want to be free of the fuel and power mongers... lol. I just acquired a great deal of recycled tempered glass (and have a steady supply for future projects) that will enclose the structure I posted pictures of earlier. I have an engineer designing the boiler, we think the output will heat my house, shop, and greenhouse. I also came up with a way to cycle the water without water pumps, so my electric consumption will be nearly non-existent. This way I can use solar power to run what littler mechanical I have during the summer and stockpile my biomass fuel for the winter. I hope to have it all operational by this summer or fall. I have one investor and I think I have another on board that is very interested in marketing the whole system. I will let you know how it goes! Take care.

Permalink Reply by Nick Rizzo on March 25, 2011 at 10:31pm

I have seen some youtube videos on the subject also heard about it from the editor of backhome magazine

Tom Barnhardt said:

Has anyone tried heating a greenhouse using hot water generated from a compost pile?

Rick Stillwagon said:

Well I have been moving forward. I found a steam engine in India, I will be purchasing it in a few weeks. The boiler will still be fired with biomass, cant beat free... for fuel costs. Also local availability is eternal here, weeds, grass, etc. never stop growing here. I want to be free of the fuel and power mongers... lol. I just acquired a great deal of recycled tempered glass (and have a steady supply for future projects) that will enclose the structure I posted pictures of earlier. I have an engineer designing the boiler, we think the output will heat my house, shop, and greenhouse. I also came up with a way to cycle the water without water pumps, so my electric consumption will be nearly non-existent. This way I can use solar power to run what littler mechanical I have during the summer and stockpile my biomass fuel for the winter. I hope to have it all operational by this summer or fall. I have one investor and I think I have another on board that is very interested in marketing the whole system. I will let you know how it goes! Take care.

Permalink Reply by Nick Rizzo on March 25, 2011 at 10:55pm

Here is a link to the radio show I heard it on the segment starts at about 50min.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/backyardpoultry/2011/03/24/backyard-po...
Nick Rizzo said:

I have seen some youtube videos on the subject also heard about it from the editor of backhome magazine

Tom Barnhardt said:

Has anyone tried heating a greenhouse using hot water generated from a compost pile?

Rick Stillwagon said:

Well I have been moving forward. I found a steam engine in India, I will be purchasing it in a few weeks. The boiler will still be fired with biomass, cant beat free... for fuel costs. Also local availability is eternal here, weeds, grass, etc. never stop growing here. I want to be free of the fuel and power mongers... lol. I just acquired a great deal of recycled tempered glass (and have a steady supply for future projects) that will enclose the structure I posted pictures of earlier. I have an engineer designing the boiler, we think the output will heat my house, shop, and greenhouse. I also came up with a way to cycle the water without water pumps, so my electric consumption will be nearly non-existent. This way I can use solar power to run what littler mechanical I have during the summer and stockpile my biomass fuel for the winter. I hope to have it all operational by this summer or fall. I have one investor and I think I have another on board that is very interested in marketing the whole system. I will let you know how it goes! Take care.