pH and cycling a new system

[Bryan Acred]

I wanted to start another discussion thread to keep from hijacking Patrick's "Clarification of pH" thread. :)

I dosed 4 oz of ammonia yesterday and took readings again today:

pH 7.4 (down from 7.8)

Temp 79 degrees

Ammonia 0.25ppm

Nitride 0.5ppm

Nitrate 40ppm! (Up from 10ppm)

I foliage fed 1 Tbl of Biomin Iron to my plants yesterday with the addtion of 4 oz of Ammonia. I am wondering if this possibly caused my nitrates to shoot up or is this due to the fact that my pH is starting to scale down from 8.2 down to 7.4 over the past week. Is the lowering pH unlocking more nutrient and that is what I am seeing through the tests?

Several things have occurred recently with my system. I received some "inoculated rock" with worms from Rob Nash to place into my two grow beds. He also was kind enough to give me about 4.5 gallons of Talapia "poo" water. I am about 3 weeks into my cycle and after placing this in my tank, I believe it has kicked the system into over-drive. I added all this to my system about 5 days ago.

Also, my API test kit is old (several years) because I have an aquarium in my house. Do these bottles expire?

I am thinking I am still uncycled now that the nitrite seems to be going up. I never saw a nitrite spike so perhaps I am not as far into the cycling as I previously thought.

Any comments/observations would be highly appreciated.

thanks!

[Harold Sukhbir]

HI Bryan,

These readings tempt me to say you've probably missed the nitrite spike and you're almost cycled. However, over the next 2-3 days if you don't experience a spike and instead see a lowering of Ammonia/Nitrites, this would mean your system has cycled. Just to be on the safe side and if you can afford it, you should invest in a new test kit. Wouldn't want to go forward taking a chance with some false readings, causing no end of future headaches. Are you adding foliar/iron as a preventative measure?

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Well on the one hand, you said earlier that you have been able to dose ammonia consistently now to 1-2ppm and have it back down to 0.25 withing 24 hours...so maybe you just missed your nitrite spike...although if you've been testing diligently (like it would appear), that seems unlikley...but possible.

On the other hand, I think those API kits are supposed to expire in 3 years?...Sometimes this is a ploy to get you to buy more stuff sooner, but sometimes stuff only lasts til the exp date says it does. So who knows. Have you at any time, gotten any other reading other than 0.5 out of that nitrite test? Because that would certainly be funky. It might be wise to check the exp dates, or pick up a nitrite test kit at the pet store and compare the results.

Adding Iron shouldn't really boost your nitrates up, and your new/lower pH is certainly better for the plants, but I don't think that you can see that through your tests. (Since you're only testing for Nitrogen and not for those nutrients which would potentially be locked out).

The fact that your pH has been steadily falling seems indicative to the fact that nitrification is going on. That is something that your tests would appear to confirm.

[Bryan Acred]

I went ahead and purchased a brand new master kit and will compare tests today when I get home.

 

I am still puzzled about the nitrate test going from 10 to 40 overnight. I tested twice to verify.

 

Anyway, I'll update this post this evening. Thanks everyone!

[Bryan Acred]

I just compared readings between the new kit verses the old and they were identical. Pretty impressive considering how old that test kit is.

pH = 7.4

Ammonia = 0

Nitrite = 0

Nitrate = between 40-80

I think I am ready for fish. However, how much is too high for a nitrate reading? If my aquarium had this much, I would be doing water changes.

Both 4X8 growbeds are loaded with veggies and herbs so I believe I am ok, but I would sure like to know what you all think.

Blessings,

Bryan

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Very cool. Your fine as far as nitrates. Start to really worry if you approach 300+. If in the future you feel your nitrates getting too high, either add more growbed space/plants, or get rid of some fish (looong before you get anywhere near 300)...they will probably fluctuate a bit according to season, harvesting/re-planting schedules etc...Stagger you planting schedule so that your not pulling all your plants out at once if you can.

Good job. 3 weeks is a pretty quick cycle. Weird (in a good way) about the nitrites though...I have a friend who had the opposite problem, his nitrites were sky high, for like a month. Just did not seem to want to come down...

[Bryan Acred]

Awesome Vlad. Thank you for all the information. I am sure I will have more as time goes forward. By the way, what kind of nitrate test would measure that high? The API nitrate kit only goes to 160ppm I believe.

Also, where in Serbia do you live? What is it like there?

[TCLynx]

Bryan,

    To measure nitrates above 160 (or for me I can't tell the difference between anything above about 60) you have to dilute the sample by a measured amount and run the test then do the math to figure out what the actual reading is.  Like if you dilute a measured 1 part sample with say 4 parts distilled water then you run the test and multiply by 5.

[Bryan Acred]

Thanks for the info TCLynx. I appreciate you all very much!. If I see my nitrates approaching the 160 mark (you are right, it is hard to distinguish) I will just add plants or eat fish!

[Bryan Acred]

My pH is continuing to drop. Within a week, I have gone from 8.0 down to today's reading of 6.4. I expected it to drop over time but not the quickly. Is this because it is so new? I am picking up tilapia tomorrow morning so should I do anything about this pH right now? Any and all help is much appreciated.

Blessings,

Bryan

[TCLynx]

Bryan, often an extreme drop in pH comes along side of finishing that initial cycle up!  You need to buffer that pH a little bit to keep it from dropping below the readability of your test kit.  If it drops too far too fast, you could crash your new bacteria colony.  a few spoon fulls of potassium bicarboante or calcium carbonate would probably be in order.  You don't really want to raise your pH but you want to keep it from falling any further.  If all else fails and you don't have any potassium bicarboante or lime, use a spoon full of baking soda (this is a one time only stop gap till you can get the other stuff since you don't want to build up sodium in the system.)  Calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime or quicklime) or potassium hydroxide (lye) can also be used but you have to be very careful with those as they are extremely strong/fast acting and can raise the pH too much if you are not really careful and can burn you when you are handling them.

Many people will aim for a pH between 6.8-8 and most people use 6.5 as the action point to add some buffer (perhaps even a mesh bag of oyster shells, chicken grit or limestone chips hanging in the tank so you can take them out when the pH is high enough.)

[Bryan Acred]

Thanks for the information TCLynx. I caught Vlad last night on the chat and he suggested a 5% water change with the water from my cistern. It has a pH of 8. I tested the water after a couple of hours and also this morning and the pH had come back up to 7.

I'll continue to keep an eye on it and see if I need to add any lime. I really appreciate all the information. I am learning alot.

I got the tilapia this morning and they seem to be doing fine so far.

[TCLynx]

Ah, well yes if your cistern water is hard, then simply doing top ups may take care of a large portion of your buffering needs.  And if you can alternate with using some potassium bicarbonate you then get some of your needed potassium in the process.