Heating Water

[Two Jay]

How are you, Aquapons, heating your water?

[Green Acre Aquaponics]

Or,.. instead of painting it, it could be lined with black plastic.

Gina Cavaliero and Tonya Penick said:

Of course we haven't tested this though.

Gina Cavaliero and Tonya Penick said:

We are thinking about building a glass encloser of sorts with old surplus sliding glass doors or cheap surplus windows. We will paint the inside black, and run black irrigation pipe into coils.We will then tie into those pipes with a bypass line so the water runs through this before it returns to the fish tank. With this set up, and the tanks getting insulated, it should more than sufficiantly heat up the water throughout the day to stay warm through the night.

Nikki said:

I have been wondering the same thing. We are just starting out and will be going pretty basic initially. Pretty much, we'll be starting with the old fashioned fish in a barrel...probably catfish. Beyond painting it black and putting it in the sun, I have no other ideas besides the water heaters in heating the water. I would definately be interested to hear the other ideas out there. Something economical and sustainable.

[TCLynx]

I did what I called a solar drain heater on my aquarium system for a while. The Aquarium and grow buckets were in the spare bedroom but the sump tank was just outside the window. I set up a coil of black drinking water pipe so that the drain would send some water through that pipe when the valve was open. That could heat the water quite a bit simply laying out in the sun for part of the day. I had to remember to close the valve in the evening though as it would chill the water quite a lot at night.

The improvement of putting such a thing in a black lined glassed over enclosure would definitely make a big difference, especially if it can be placed such that it gets the best winter sun.

If one were to add thermal mass (black barrels of water or rocks or whatever) into that glassed over black enclosure, one might also use it to warm the air in the greenhouse overnight with the addition of some timer or thermostat controlled vents/fans.

[Green Acre Aquaponics]

Oooooooooooo...!!!!!!!!!!!! I LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!

TCLynx said:

I did what I called a solar drain heater on my aquarium system for a while. The Aquarium and grow buckets were in the spare bedroom but the sump tank was just outside the window. I set up a coil of black drinking water pipe so that the drain would send some water through that pipe when the valve was open. That could heat the water quite a bit simply laying out in the sun for part of the day. I had to remember to close the valve in the evening though as it would chill the water quite a lot at night.

The improvement of putting such a thing in a black lined glassed over enclosure would definitely make a big difference, especially if it can be placed such that it gets the best winter sun.

If one were to add thermal mass (black barrels of water or rocks or whatever) into that glassed over black enclosure, one might also use it to warm the air in the greenhouse overnight with the addition of some timer or thermostat controlled vents/fans.

[Green Acre Aquaponics]

You wouldn't even need fans or electric if you used Cosmos idea of (i think it's called) convection, by opening a1 or 2 vents in the roof of the greenhouse, and opening about 6 inches to a foot of space on the outside bottom of the encloser and just let mother nature pull the heat in!

TCLynx said:

I did what I called a solar drain heater on my aquarium system for a while. The Aquarium and grow buckets were in the spare bedroom but the sump tank was just outside the window. I set up a coil of black drinking water pipe so that the drain would send some water through that pipe when the valve was open. That could heat the water quite a bit simply laying out in the sun for part of the day. I had to remember to close the valve in the evening though as it would chill the water quite a lot at night.

The improvement of putting such a thing in a black lined glassed over enclosure would definitely make a big difference, especially if it can be placed such that it gets the best winter sun.

If one were to add thermal mass (black barrels of water or rocks or whatever) into that glassed over black enclosure, one might also use it to warm the air in the greenhouse overnight with the addition of some timer or thermostat controlled vents/fans.

[TCLynx]

The convection though is likely to be greatest letting it work through the day. I was suggesting storing up as much heat in thermal mass in the heating chamber during the day (when you need it in the greenhouse the least) and then circulating it into the greenhouse at night when you will need it some, I don't think this will work as well with convection alone.


Gina Cavaliero and Tonya Penick said:

You wouldn't even need fans or electric if you used Cosmos idea of (i think it's called) convection, by opening a1 or 2 vents in the roof of the greenhouse, and opening about 6 inches to a foot of space on the outside bottom of the encloser and just let mother nature pull the heat in!

[k edmonds]

Hi Peter,

This site may have some useful information, http://www.builditsolar.com/, on sizing of your tank and solar panels. This guy had an interesting article in the December 2007/January 2008 Mother Earth News. I believe this type of system could be adapted for use in greenhouses/aquaponics. There is also an article in Solar Today, November/December 2007 issue that discusses the use of sand based systems for radiant heat. www.solartoday.org. I am leaning towards an adaptation of this type of system for supplemental heat.
Kip


Peter Shaw said:

The heater you use or the wattage depends on how much you need to heat the water. The recommendation I got from Aquatic Ecosystems was 4W per gal to increase 9 deg F. and about 2.25W per gal for 5 deg F.

Also, yes, use 2 rather than one.

My average winter temperature is about 50 F, and if I want to have koi growing all the time I need a temp of at least 60

I am also looking at solar hot water. With 1200 gal in the system including rafts I need to figure out how much of a storage tank i need to be able to heat up the water to at least 60 at night. But i am not sure how to translate that into area of solar collectors or storage tanks.

The system is next to our greenhouses with NG hot water BioTherm heating with one 50gal water heater so I may look at connecting the two together and adding the solar but the biotherm is for our propagation house and I can not compromise the heat there or i lose all my production of other nursery crops.

It is getting colder here so I am going to use the electric heat for now and consider solar later.

[Joe Bifano]

I am adding something to an old post but thought that I would anyway.

 

I have been looking at this for a while because I am in Colorado. I am looking at building a Pool heater, or boiler, from a 55 gallon barrel. The idea is to have a wood stove made from the 55 gallon barrel using a stove kit.  The kit comes with a door, 2 legs and a pipe connector on the top.  You then put 1/2" copper in it in a spiral. You would have to filter the fish nutrients and pump it into the boiler and then it goes back to the FT. You would start the fire at sunset and have the water get warmer all night. I would think that you would need to put some kind of pressure relief  valve on it so the pipes do not split in case the pump stops. Or have 2 pumps so if one dies the other one continues not sure.  I have been just looking at this and thought that someone might like to dialog on this idea. I am not sure if it has to be a big fire in the boiler or not. 

 

It may have to have some kind of controller encase the water gets warmer than you want it and goes to someplace else that needs the heat, another FT or radiant heated floors.

 

It would be nice if I could afford it down the road to have a pellet stove boiler so it would all be automatic but that is at least 5 to 8K.

 Any thoughts on the boiler idea?

[TCLynx]

Just don't go using the copper coil with fish water recirculating through it as this is generally bad for the fish.  It would be better to set up some sort of indirect heating of the system water like circulating the heated water through plastic tubing or pex tubing laid in the bottoms of the grow beds and perhaps the bottom of the fish tank, that way you wouldn't be killing your fish with the copper and you wouldn't have to worry about bio-slime and fish poo clogging up the coils in the boiler.

Joe Bifano said:

I am adding something to an old post but thought that I would anyway.

 

I have been looking at this for a while because I am in Colorado. I am looking at building a Pool heater, or boiler, from a 55 gallon barrel. The idea is to have a wood stove made from the 55 gallon barrel using a stove kit.  The kit comes with a door, 2 legs and a pipe connector on the top.  You then put 1/2" copper in it in a spiral. You would have to filter the fish nutrients and pump it into the boiler and then it goes back to the FT. You would start the fire at sunset and have the water get warmer all night. I would think that you would need to put some kind of pressure relief  valve on it so the pipes do not split in case the pump stops. Or have 2 pumps so if one dies the other one continues not sure.  I have been just looking at this and thought that someone might like to dialog on this idea. I am not sure if it has to be a big fire in the boiler or not. 

 

It may have to have some kind of controller encase the water gets warmer than you want it and goes to someplace else that needs the heat, another FT or radiant heated floors.

 

It would be nice if I could afford it down the road to have a pellet stove boiler so it would all be automatic but that is at least 5 to 8K.

 Any thoughts on the boiler idea?

[Ryan Chatterson]

I would just use a titanium exchanger tube in the tank and keep recitculating your boiler water through the coil. You could hook a thermostat to a fan And have it blow on the fire to heat it up or stop to cool it down.

TCLynx said:

Just don't go using the copper coil with fish water recirculating through it as this is generally bad for the fish.  It would be better to set up some sort of indirect heating of the system water like circulating the heated water through plastic tubing or pex tubing laid in the bottoms of the grow beds and perhaps the bottom of the fish tank, that way you wouldn't be killing your fish with the copper and you wouldn't have to worry about bio-slime and fish poo clogging up the coils in the boiler.

Joe Bifano said:

I am adding something to an old post but thought that I would anyway.

 

I have been looking at this for a while because I am in Colorado. I am looking at building a Pool heater, or boiler, from a 55 gallon barrel. The idea is to have a wood stove made from the 55 gallon barrel using a stove kit.  The kit comes with a door, 2 legs and a pipe connector on the top.  You then put 1/2" copper in it in a spiral. You would have to filter the fish nutrients and pump it into the boiler and then it goes back to the FT. You would start the fire at sunset and have the water get warmer all night. I would think that you would need to put some kind of pressure relief  valve on it so the pipes do not split in case the pump stops. Or have 2 pumps so if one dies the other one continues not sure.  I have been just looking at this and thought that someone might like to dialog on this idea. I am not sure if it has to be a big fire in the boiler or not. 

 

It may have to have some kind of controller encase the water gets warmer than you want it and goes to someplace else that needs the heat, another FT or radiant heated floors.

 

It would be nice if I could afford it down the road to have a pellet stove boiler so it would all be automatic but that is at least 5 to 8K.

 Any thoughts on the boiler idea?

[Joe Bifano]

Where can you get a exchanger tube made from titanium?

 

 

[Ryan Chatterson]

I know you can get them from Aqualogic, don't know if they will sell you the titanium tubing by itself but they sell the water to water exchangers in a insulated housing coupled with a temp controller. You can also find stainless steel exchangers and cupric nickle exchangers (which wont harm fish) on the market.

[Joe Bifano]

Hi thanks for the info on Aqualogic.  I emailed them about their heat exchangers.

 

New question does anybody know if I put my 55 gallon wood stove boiler in the greenhouse would I have a problem? I am not sure how hard it would be to keep the smoke completely out of the greenhouse every time you open the door to load it. Or just load it one time and then mabe if it is completely sealed I would not have to worry. 

 

Any thoughts?