who is making better food for fish?

[adam harwood]

anybody have a clue here?

 what is a quality food? does it make a difference ?

 how do you know good food?

 can you make your own food?

[TCLynx]

My understanding was that fish did not count as livestock and that the fact that Friendlies lost their Costco account over it was some idiot deciding that fish did count as livestock.  If fish count as livestock than anyone in a residential district with an aquarium or ornamental pond is breaking the zoning codes.  Livestock is different than poultry is different than aquaculture.

But when an inspector comes along, ya gotta be careful because it generally doesn't work to argue with them.  Ya normally have to appease them while finding out what is "allowed".  Sigh.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Well, not really. The law makes totally different allowances for animals (fish) which are to be used for pets as opposed to food production systems. You can for instance have/sell/buy talapia in places in the US where it's use in aquaculture is strictly forbidden, as long as you sell them to be used 'as pets'. And since AP is a 'hobby', on the one side this works...on the other...well you know, it's kinda grey...

Vague laws of that nature, where an important aspect of your life or business is dependent on some "idiot's" interpretation, usually means (here at least) that that vagueness is taken advantage of (by said hordes of idiots) to each individually set the price for their "appeasement". Double sigh...

[Joel G]

 

@Ryan and all,

 

FYI I use a combined greenwater/duckweed system for my mini-tilapia hatchery. 

I've read a number of studies that showed replacing 50% of commercial feeds with duckweed is just as effective as pure commercial feed. 

Here in the PH it is the other way around, we try to get natural food (algae, duckweed) to grow in the ponds then add commercial feed (we term it supplemental feeding) as the natural food gets consumed.

One problem with duckweed is that a) it kills/competes with greenwater (algae), andb) it requires more surface area (it floats, unlike algae which is suspended in the water or grows in the water). 

 

 

Ryan Sala said:

Soooo anyone grow their own Duckweed? Also would there be an added supplement that the fish would need just in case the duckweed isnt enough for a balanced diet? Happy Fish Happy Farmers

 

[Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair]

Dr Rakocy who created the UVI system studied duckweed as food for Tilapia and found that on an all you can eat diet of duckweed his fish lost weight - so no it is not a complete diet.

Ryan Sala said:

Soooo anyone grow their own Duckweed? Also would there be an added supplement that the fish would need just in case the duckweed isnt enough for a balanced diet? Happy Fish Happy Farmers

[Carey Ma]

@ Jonathan: Yes duckweed by it self (esp in a recirculating system) is not a complete diet. Green-water culture contains lots o lil buggers that add to the energy requirements.

[TCLynx]

I don't think there is any one thing you can grow in a recirculating system that will feed the fish 100% and not require some form of nutrient input to the system.  Green water culture usually requires fertilizer to get the bloom going/keep it going and really same with duckweed.

And while algae (and all the other lil creatures that tend to also bloom and live it in) can be a complete food for some fish, I would agree that most any system is going to require more diverse inputs that just one thing.

I get very frustrated with people who want to build an aquaponics system and get some tilapia and they think they can run it just by growing all the fish feed in the system and the only input once set up would be the electricity and top up water and that they would still get to harvest fish and veggies at the same rate that people using outside fish feeds can do.  If you want to take stuff out of a recirculating system, then you have to put something in too.  Sunlight is a great free input but it alone doesn't create the nutrients for the plants and fish to grow.

[Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair]

In a dream world you would culture insects, algae, phytoplankton and zooplankton to grow filter feeding fish which you would turn in to the fish meal/oil component of your feed. It would have to be a such a big scale with it's own input challenges - would it ever make dollars or sense?

[Ryan Sala]

So having a worm farm could help this? Duckweed+Worms = magic :)

[Carey Ma]

@ Jonathan: One doesn't have to dream...just have a cow or some goats. One needs input from somewhere. Please read my comment on " http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum/topics/duckweed-growing-it-and...

@ Ryan: Sorry dude. No magic pill here. If you are doing AP to be sustainable I'd use a similar formula as described above. If you are trying to grow fish for profit in a recirculating system, I'd just stick with commercial feed. Can you live on spinach and steak?

[jason maggs]

Just to clarify the issues friendlies had with their costco account, I was staying with friendlies at the time this all happened. Costco , after purchasing their lettuce for some time, decided that they needed to get another certification with a third party named Primus Labs. From my understanding it was two things that Primus failed them on. One was that there should be no spiders in the harvest area, and secondly was the bull about no livestock on the farm, and according to Primus fish count as livestock. But this is all based off of Primus Labs requirements. Why Costco decided to add on Primus Labs certifiaction as a requirement is unknown especially since friendlies had passed other third party certification and had been cleared by costco up to that point.

 

Just a few things for everyone to consider when thinking about where your fish feed comes from and which is best.Almost all commercial fish feeds contain "fishmeal" which sounds great right feed your fish...fish. But there are big problems with that.

 

First: no fishmeal can trully be called organic. Since ALL fish meal is sprayed with fungicide to keep it from spoiling, this is a requirement by the coast guard and cant be sidestepped so any thing you get with fish meal in it has been sprayed with a fungicide whether it says organic or not.

 

Second: The main fish used to create fishmeal is called Menhaden. And as expected we are pulling more out the oceans then is probably healthy. Menhaden are the foundation of the Atlantic. menhaden are crucial to the diet of Atlantic tuna, cod, haddock, halibut, mackerel, bluefish, weakfish, striped bass, swordfish, king mackerel, summer flounder, [and] drum" -- to name a few. Some Marine specialist believe it is the overharvesting of Menhaden that is leading to the decline in other fish species.  Marine birds, whales and porpoises also find menhaden delectable. Menhaden are used  by the industrys for  animal feed, cosmetics, health food supplements, linoleum, lubricants, margarine, soap, insecticide, and paint. So bascially we are lowering fish populations in the oceans just to grow the fish here on land. Kind of seems counter productive and ruins the suistainablilty of the most well develpoed AP system. I worry that as AP takes off more and more fish will be pulled from the oceans unless we develop a sustainable at home system for people to create their own fish feed.

[tilly the tilapia]

I would not be to concerned about ap systems using to much fishmeal or fish oil as feed lot salmon consume for more ocean fish than most people can imagine .

2 to 4 lbs of wild fish per 1 lb of salmon .Salmon feed is high in fish meal and fish oil and of course other inputs.

jason maggs said:

Just to clarify the issues friendlies had with their costco account, I was staying with friendlies at the time this all happened. Costco , after purchasing their lettuce for some time, decided that they needed to get another certification with a third party named Primus Labs. From my understanding it was two things that Primus failed them on. One was that there should be no spiders in the harvest area, and secondly was the bull about no livestock on the farm, and according to Primus fish count as livestock. But this is all based off of Primus Labs requirements. Why Costco decided to add on Primus Labs certifiaction as a requirement is unknown especially since friendlies had passed other third party certification and had been cleared by costco up to that point.

 

Just a few things for everyone to consider when thinking about where your fish feed comes from and which is best.Almost all commercial fish feeds contain "fishmeal" which sounds great right feed your fish...fish. But there are big problems with that.

 

First: no fishmeal can trully be called organic. Since ALL fish meal is sprayed with fungicide to keep it from spoiling, this is a requirement by the coast guard and cant be sidestepped so any thing you get with fish meal in it has been sprayed with a fungicide whether it says organic or not.

 

Second: The main fish used to create fishmeal is called Menhaden. And as expected we are pulling more out the oceans then is probably healthy. Menhaden are the foundation of the Atlantic. menhaden are crucial to the diet of Atlantic tuna, cod, haddock, halibut, mackerel, bluefish, weakfish, striped bass, swordfish, king mackerel, summer flounder, [and] drum" -- to name a few. Some Marine specialist believe it is the overharvesting of Menhaden that is leading to the decline in other fish species.  Marine birds, whales and porpoises also find menhaden delectable. Menhaden are used  by the industrys for  animal feed, cosmetics, health food supplements, linoleum, lubricants, margarine, soap, insecticide, and paint. So bascially we are lowering fish populations in the oceans just to grow the fish here on land. Kind of seems counter productive and ruins the suistainablilty of the most well develpoed AP system. I worry that as AP takes off more and more fish will be pulled from the oceans unless we develop a sustainable at home system for people to create their own fish feed.

[TCLynx]

The wild caught fish meal is a concern for our fish feed though.  Even though there is not "organic" fish meal, it would be good to try and get sustainably harvested fish meal for your fish feed.  And while we are at it, we can keep working on alternatives to wild caught fish meal as well as alternatives to the GMO corn and soy currently in heavy use in fish feed.