Starting new system

[Joe Bifano]

I have been working on my system most of the winter getting things to work and today thought that I would take my first reading on PH, Ammonia and Nitrite.

There is no fish in the system. I am just running it without anything in it.  I have red 3/4" lava rock in the bio-filters and 2 grow beds. On low PH on the test kit it looked like PH was 7.6 so I did a high PH and it looked like 8.6.

O ppm on Ammonia and Nitrite.

I have about 2000 gallons of water in the system and I am looking at adding about 22 grams of Ammonia Chloride to get that going. I am using Pro-line from Aquatic Eco systems. The bottle says to use 1.13 grams per 100 gallons. I will test again in a couple of days and then look at adding Nitrifying bacteria to get that going.

Will my PH come down after all of this other stuff gets going?

What would my ammonia levels be to be good?

Then after I get the bacteria in it what would Nitrite and Nitrate levels be?

Thanks

[TCLynx]

If you are going to add a bottled bacteria product, don't dose your ammonia too high.  I would usually only dose to between 1-2 ppm when I fishless cycle my systems and definitely try to stay below 3 ppm if adding the bottled bacteria.

Once the ammonia starts dropping you will likely see a spike in nitrite which usually lasts a bit longer and then you will have rising nitrates and eventually the nitrite will fall.  Once a system is cycled up you should be able to dose between 1-2 ppm of ammonia and have both ammonia and nitrite fall to 0 within 24 hours, that is the indication that you are cycled up.  Keep dosing small amounts to keep the bacteria alive till a day or two before you get your fish.

Here is a blog post about it I did.

Fishless cycling

Your pH may drop around the time your nitrites drop however that is not guaranteed.  Sounds like your source water may be very hard.  Can you collect rain water to use to top up your system?  Otherwise you might want to have a barrel handy to adjust the pH of your top up water before you use it in the system or an RO filter.

I find my well water is hard enough to keep the pH high 7.6 in my systems if I'm constantly using it to top up so I try to use rain water as much as I can so I can avoid using acids (which just tend to liberate too much calcium into the water and cause some balance issues with potassium.)  If I use rain water all the time to top up my pH will fall to the point where I actually get to use some potassium bicarbonate to buffer the pH from dropping too low and then the next time the pH drops I can use a little well water to top up so I am alternating the potassium and calcium buffers to keep things in balance a little better.

[Joe Bifano]

Great info!

My second day of tests are the same for PH and Ammonia went up to 2-3ppm.  I have a gallon of Nitrifying bacteria to help jump start the nitrite cycle. But according to the bottle I need about 6 gallons for my 2000 gallon setup. I will try the gallon in a couple of days.

As far as PH I live in Colorado and we do not get a lot of rain water.  But I will try to see what I can catch.

When you say RO what does that stand for again? Please explain the barrel process on how to get water at a lower PH.

[TCLynx]

I would add the bottled bacteria asap since that stuff doesn't keep long (or if it's any good it won't keep long) and you want to get the bacteria into the system ASAP to start working on the ammonia.  No point in waiting if there is a safe amount of ammonia in the system for it and no chlorine.

Yes RO stands for reverse osmosis filter.

The barrel method would be to fill up a barrel or a tote or whatever and use some muratic acid (or other appropriate acid) to adjust the pH of your measured amount of tap water.  Be sure you have good ventilation when you use strong acids and plenty of water on hand in case of spill or splash.  You should wear goggles and gloves and any other appropriate protective clothing too.  Anyway, you will add a measured amount of acid to the measured amount of water (always add acid to water, never the other way round.) and then you let it mix (a bubbler in the tank will help with mixing as well as offgassing chlorine if that is what you water is treated with (if treated with chloramine you may need to use an appropriate conditioner to remove it.)  Anyway, after the acid mixes well you can measure your pH again then I would wait a day and measure again.  Really hard water will tend to bounce the pH back up and it may do this several times before you manage to use up all the carbonate with you acid additions.  Keep track of how much acid it takes to adjust your top up water to a certain point and get it to stay there.  Say a pH of 6.5 might be a good number to aim for.  Once you figure out the aprox amount of acid it will take to get the pH down to that point and keep it there, for future adjustments you will be able to fill the barrel and add about that amount of acid and let it mix and settle for a couple days before it should be stable and ready to use to help bring down your system pH.  Adjusting the top up water is far safer than adding acid to your system water.

[Joe Bifano]

I talked to Aquatic Eco systems and they said that I can use there product called PH down and it would be safe to use.  I want to make sure that this was okay.

[RupertofOZ]

Take the approach TCL suggests... pH down can be various things... ranging from Sodium Thiosulphite, Nitric acid to Phosphoric acid...

 

I wouldn't use any of them...

[RupertofOZ]

And if you're using the Proline water conditioner... I wouldn't use that either...

 

Especially when the website claims the product can do things that just aren't true...like

 

"The quality of the ProLine® brand is best exemplified by Techno Carbon, a pellet-shaped carbon that adsorbs ammonia and nitrite in addition to what normal activated carbon adsorbs."

 

Activated carbon will NOT adsorb ammonia... it's complete bullocks...

[TCLynx]

Aquatic Eco Systems stuff is generally fish safe, however, they are not as good on the plant or food side of things since they are only now really getting into aquaponics.  You want to find out which particular chemical the pH down is before you use it.

Truth is, you can buy a gallon of muratic acid (hydrochloric acid) from Ace hardware and use it to adjust your top up water carefully before you use it in the system.  I said carefully, wear gloves and goggles and have the hose or plenty of water nearby in case of spills or splashes.  Always add acid to the larger amount of water, never the other way around.

[Joe Bifano]

I will go with the muratic acid and take a lot of care in doing it.

On the PH readings I should have done this sooner and this may change or not change what I need to do. I took a test inside the house just now.  I am on a well. The PH in the house was right at 7.0 Then I took a test on the tap inside the sink in the greenhouse and it was 7.0  Then I took another test in the rafts and it was higher than 7.6 using the low PH. It was darker than 7.6.

The only thing I have is red lava rocks in my BIO-FILTRATION and 2 grow beds.  I have 2 4'x4'x16" pool liner tanks that have auto siphons in them that are used as bio-filters. I also have a 4'x8'x4" trough that has lava rock in it where the water runs down hill. 

This has to be where I am getting the higher PH from. Does that mean I have to take this all out?

[TCLynx]

Nope,  the pH reading right out of the faucet is a false low reading.

Water from the pipes or a holding tank or the well will have dissolved carbon dioxide trapped in it and that acts as a weak acid and will give you a false low pH reading.  Once that CO2 escapes (like by pumping around your system or being bubbled) you will get a more accurate pH reading.

This little fact before I knew it drove me nuts.  I could not figure out how my pH kept going so high in my Hydroponics system when I was adding water with a pH of 7 and using nutrients that would bring the pH down.  Go figure, after the CO2 escapes my well water actually has a pH between 8-8.4 depending on season.