Chelated Iron Dosing - Is there such a thing as a preventive dosing?

[Roger Pilon]

Is there a specific dosing of chelated iron that one can add to his system as a preventive dosing!

I know that when you see yellow leaf appearing it is normally time to add chelated iron. This said, I would like to know if there a specific dose that you can add weekly, monthly to keep your AP system in a happy iron level?

Not too much, not too high... just enough to avoid a lack of iron!

Some specs:

1. I have a chelated iron EDDHSA 6% (Fe)
2. Using a IBC tote with 1000 liters water +/-
3. 2 x (4x8x12inches) Deep Floating Raft 
4. PH is at 6.8 / 7 range

Any advices would be welcome!

Roger Pilon

Costa Rica

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Glad to be of service 
:)
TCLynx said:

Thank you

[Shas Cho]

"If it is purchased from a garden or hydroponics store
it will likely be chelated with DTPA (Diethylenetriaminepentaacetate)."

(from post above)

The trick to academic Latin is the same as understanding German;

you have to break it down into recognizable components.

Di  ethyl-ene tri  amine  penta  acetate

I'll bet you have run into each of these at some time or other.

Think of it as a crossword puzzle!

[Ryan Chatterson]

"What test do you use for iron, Ryan?

I read recently that iron is unique among the micro nutrients in that you cannot overdose. I looked but couldn't find the reference. If your tomatoes start rusting, cut back a bit."

I use a Lamotte Iron test kit (Titration style)

[Shas Cho]

"I read recently that iron is unique among the micro nutrients in that you cannot overdose."

 . 

Animals (eg, humans) can certainly overdose on iron

and it can be pretty darned nasty:

 . 

"Iron overdose has been one of the leading causes of death caused bytoxicological agents in children younger than 6 years."

- emedicine.medscape.com

 . 

"Iron products can be very dangerous for children."

- safemedicationuse.ca

 . 

Iron overdose seems to be less dramatic in plants:

 . 

"Excess Fe can result in Dark green foliage, stunted growth of tops and roots, dark brown to purple leaves on some plants (e.g. bronzing disease of rice)."

- spectrumanalytic.com

 . 

And of course excessive iron levels in plants

can cause iron toxicity in the animals which ingest them,

bringing us back to point one.

 . 

I am not aware of any substance,

including water and oxygen,

which cannot be harmful in excess.

Overindulgence in even Cannabis and Vitamin C cause SOME side effects!

[Russ Grant]

thanks everyone for the interesting thread. I recently planted some cucumbers from seed, in no time they took off great but within 3 weeks the leaves have started to yellow. I've been adding a tablespoon of chelated iron every other week with no impact. My Ph stays around 7, the IBC system is 5 months old. Based on the conversation I think I will insure i have the correct type of iron and maybe up the dose a bit.

Plants that are doing well: tomatoes, onions, peppers, cilantro, eggplant

Plants that aren't so great: lettuce, cucumbers, beans

[Shas Cho]

Nice.

That's are happy eggplant!

[TCLynx]

While Iron is probably the most common deficiency in aquaponics, it is not the only thing that will cause yellowing of leaves.

Take careful note of how the yellowing is occurring.

Iron deficiency generally shows up in new growth first and it generally starts out as the veins staying green while the space between the veins is yellow.

Yellowing following a different pattern will probably mean a different nutrient deficiency.  Old leaves yellowing could even be a sign if Nitrogen deficiency if the system is running low on fish and the Nitrate reading is 0.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Shas, do you know of a single case of a relatively 'healthy' human being (children included) who have Fe-OD'd by ingesting plant based Iron source? 

I think you would have to be trying really, really, REALLY hard to even induce Iron toxicity in most plants (barring certain strains of rice and all chelate toxicity issues aside)...

Certainly possible though...Like you said...anything in excess...Remember when the red M&M's got banned for a bit, a while back...on the basis that the dye used was carcinogenic? But then you go and read the studies and they were injecting lab rats 2 or 3 times their body weight regularly with just the dye itself to 'prove' that it was bad? Which is the equivalent of eating what? Hundreds if not thousands of times your own body weight in red M&M's a day? 

I'm not saying that iron toxicity doesn't happen in particular settings. A little kid eating a bottle of Iron supplements like they were tic tacs is one of them. But eating plants even high in Iron plants, seems like a highly unlikely (to put it lightly) way for it to happen............

'A student at Eagle Rock Junior High won first prize at the Greater Idaho Falls Science Fair, April 26. He was attempting to show how conditioned we have become to alarmists practicing junk science and spreading fear of everything in our environment. In his project he urged people to sign a petition demanding strict control or total elimination of the chemical "dihydrogen monoxide."

And for plenty of good reasons, since:

1. it can cause excessive sweating and vomiting
2. it is a major component in acid rain
3. it can cause severe burns in its gaseous state
4. accidental inhalation can kill you
5. it contributes to erosion
6. it decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes
7. it has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients

He asked 50 people if they supported a ban of the chemical.

• Forty-three (43) said yes,
• six (6) were undecided,
• and only one (1) knew that the chemical was water.

The title of his prize winning project was, "How Gullible Are We?"

He feels the conclusion is obvious.

DMHO (for short) has also been known to:

• is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
• contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
• may cause severe burns.
• is fatal if inhaled.
• contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
• accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
• may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
• has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

• as an industrial solvent and coolant.
• in nuclear power plants.
• in the production of Styrofoam.
• as a fire retardant.
• in many forms of cruel animal research.
• in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
• as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

And so on...

Shas Cho said:

"I read recently that iron is unique among the micro nutrients in that you cannot overdose."

 . 

Animals (eg, humans) can certainly overdose on iron

and it can be pretty darned nasty:

 . 

"Iron overdose has been one of the leading causes of death caused bytoxicological agents in children younger than 6 years."

- emedicine.medscape.com

 . 

"Iron products can be very dangerous for children."

- safemedicationuse.ca

 . 

Iron overdose seems to be less dramatic in plants:

 . 

"Excess Fe can result in Dark green foliage, stunted growth of tops and roots, dark brown to purple leaves on some plants (e.g. bronzing disease of rice)."

- spectrumanalytic.com

 . 

And of course excessive iron levels in plants

can cause iron toxicity in the animals which ingest them,

bringing us back to point one.

 . 

I am not aware of any substance,

including water and oxygen,

which cannot be harmful in excess.

Overindulgence in even Cannabis and Vitamin C cause SOME side effects!

[Chip Pilkington]

I experienced an iron deficiency in the first six months or so as well. My solution was the maxicrop plus iron. It seems to come up often, as so many folks are struggling with needy plants in immature systems. The iron dosage required (and delivered thru the maxicrop) is very low. It comes in the form of ferrous sulfate, which differs slightly in delivery to the system. What I've read is that it is slower acting and longer lasting than iron chelate. Both are very effective but the seaweed product has some additional nutrients.

I found in the first 6 months or so I also required potassium as well - I did the banana peel thing for quite some time with some success. I then went to a BioCanna product, Bio-flores, which contained potassium. The results were impressive on the flowering plants.

[Shas Cho]

Vlad Jovanovic said:

Shas, do you know of a single case of a relatively 'healthy' human being (children included) who have Fe-OD'd by ingesting plant based Iron source? 

Nope, nary a one.

Nor was I indicating such a thing.

I was thinking more of the Tilapia

eating a regular diet of iron-flooded vegetation.

Somehow the clarity of my thoughts gets lost

between my head and my fingers.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Yeah, lots of things (like heavy metals) do seem to accumulate in flesh of fish. (Just because I don't eat them, I tend to kind of forget sometimes that other people do. Sorry, I thought you were talking about people eating plants). I've not a clue on the long term possibilities of Fe build up over time in them and what that would mean for people who ate them. Or if Iron, in sane amounts even builds up in fish. Beyond a certain ppm in their water, Fe3+ and Fe2+ will kill them, but that is not what you were asking...

[Chip Pilkington]

An interesting note I've read about feral Tilapia...as fish go, they tend to absorb far less toxins than most. This includes heavy metals, pesticides, etc.  The farmed fish do tend to be a bit fattier and will hold slightly higher levels, but are overall one of the best at resisting the toxins and subsequently passing those on to us.