Aquaponic Gardening

A Community and Forum For Aquaponic Gardeners

This topic was started due to the prompting of Kobus and TC Lynx. Aquaponics as it is, relies on high quality fish feed as the main nutrient source for fish and plant production. As we all know fish feed was developed mostly for farmed fish(aquaculture), and while we use it out of necessity today, we are becoming increasingly aware of its limit for the long term. Fish feed production, utilizing aquatic animals is simply not sustainable, and i believe it is a science like AP which will create overwhelming demand for a land produced equivalent to this, in the likes of Duckweed, BSLF, Red worms, Amino Acid producing algae. In the near future AP operations will call on the operator, be it backyard or commercial, to learn to produce his own feed and develop his own self sustaining AP. This information gives the operator the freedom to feed his AP with the inputs of his choosing, toward growing healthy fish and vegetables.

Apart from AP, the growing of duckweed, algae, worms etc. are disciplines within themselves and warrant separate discussion on the formulas, techniques and skills needed to successfully produce them. So how does each of us do it?.............................

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Replies to This Discussion

Carey,

     Six people on one acre, that is actually really impressive.  And We are also big supporters of closing the nutrient cycle and we humanure compost too (no need for separators the urine is the best compost activator but I suppose one might want to save some out for liquid gold fertilizer.)

 

I'm thinking perhaps Carey, I want you to start your own discussion thread here so you can tell us more about your farming techniques in particular (and not need to feel like you are hijacking if you stray off topic since it will be your own discussion.)  If you feel inclined please do it since it really sounds like you have a good permaculture operation actually running and are working on expanding even more.

 

TCLynx

Thank you TCLynx for your warm support. I give credit to my dad (the last of the gentleman scholars) who instilled and answered countless questions and the drive to experiment and hunger for knowledge. He was the true forerunner for everything I'm doing today. I just wish he could have left me some of his money as well. It would have made life a lot easier.

 

I'm currently in a thrall to manage my garden and try to organize my materials so I can find a new partner before winter sets in. I would love to start a new discussion but think I best wait till winter when I can write to my hearts content.

 

What do you think about free technology?

Namaste Carey,

 

Yes...we are on the same page :-)

 

Finally so nice to know that someone else, thousands of miles away, has the same thought process and concurs that we should be open to explore ...

 

"the right notion of cooperating communities because it really does take critical mass for it to be effective. What I think we need to be doing is study more and convince ourselves that to be sustainable means being responsible. And being responsible does not allow for shortcuts. We all must be willing to pay the real cost of our existence and reconnect with the spiritual side of life so we can respect ourselves and others enough to do what is right over what makes a profit..."

 

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts and experiences. 

 

God bless,

 

Carey Ma said:

TCLynx- the theory was proven successful some seven, eight years ago (to some extent). I consulted for a project that turned out to be a scam to defraud the government out of land. The concept was to partner with the Canadian gov for genetics as a new showcase/ experimental farm/ eco attraction. Buildings and greenhouses were build and stocked and finally after almost two years of construction and we finally open to the public. This lasted exactly eight months when notice was given that the place will be closed down the following month. Now there is no trace of the farm at all as a new complex of hi-rise building have mushroomed in its place. At first I was shocked and amazed that anything like this could happen. A brand new, hi-tech facility torn down? Unheard of in western society. Later I learned that they did not break any rules because they did what they said they were going to do. But once the gov signed off on the property, they were free to do with it as they pleased, adding to the countries GDP. This kind of waste happens all the time here. In fact I have seen several hi-rise building torn down and rebuilt. This scam for land seems to be becoming a fad. I see a lot og greenhouses built but have been empty for the past year or two. To add to my sad story, I lost all my pictures in a fire so have absolutely nothing to show. My life here has been one trial after another.

 

As for the mosquitoes: I cover my tanks with screen but mainly rely on gathering enough larva before they pupate. Larva and pupa are fed to the guppies but my guppies don’t seem to like the big mouthful of hardness so have to scoop them out again after feeding. I dump the pupa  in with my meal worms to dry and ground for feed.

 

Sahib- Yes I agree. I think we are on the same page.

 

Frank- I could only dream of eating perch again. Oh how I miss life in the land of milk & honey (Western Washington). Perch, Bass, Bluegill…yum. Anyone want to send me some?

 

Harold- I prize myself for going through the trouble of making my own feed so that my chickens, eggs and fish have everything I can give them to be healthy and happy.

 

 My understanding is that green plants, insects and animals that eat them are good sources of Omega 3 while nuts and plants, insects and animals that eat grains contain the omega 6s, with 1:1 ratio being the target. ie Big fish eat smaller fish which eat krill which eat algea,  plankton and zoolankton.  Zoolankton eat plankton and inturn eat phytoplankton “the grass of the sea”. Same goes for land animals.

 

The following picture shows the difference between one of my eggs and a supposed “free-range” egg from the local organic market.

I’m not sure how sustainable a “conventional” stand-alone AP system can be. I have been trying to design a system for survival in an urban environment but so far am not there yet because our current urban nutrient cycle does not consider our excrement as a commodity. [Yes I love poop! In fact we have three “free toilets” (with solids and liquids separator) set up around the village. Our restaurant pays patrons free toilet paper (travel tip: most places except 4/5 star establishments DO NOT provide free toilet paper in mainland China) and a Dollar/Yen is taken off their bill, just to use our toilets.] Without our waste to return to the cycle, we simply cannot magically manufacture nutrients to fill this gap without resorting to commercial size operations. The best I have been able to do is support four adults and two growing children (six people) on an acre of land with enough surplus to sell/ barter, to pay for the other external needs like fuel, taxes and materials. As for urban survival; well the best anyone can do is add a worm composter or solider fly composter to supplement bought food and recycle clean kitchen waste. There is simply not enough space to run any sort of operation even with the rooftop being utilized. Unutilized rooftops is another of my pet-peeve topics. Single level rooftop gardens cannot feed it’s residence but any local supplement helps.

 

Now I have more land and many more mouths to feed; a good proving ground for my theories. All I have to do now is find money to continue building and experimenting. We’ll se how full of my favorite stuff I am.

 

I think Sahib has the right notion of cooperating communities because it really does take critical mass for it to be effective. What I think we need to be doing is study more and convince ourselves that to be sustainable means being responsible. And being responsible does not allow for shortcuts. We all must be willing to pay the real cost of our existence and reconnect with the spiritual side of life so we can respect ourselves and others enough to do what is right over what makes a profit. Of course in this capitalistic society and world, we have little choice but to march to World Banks directives and include financial sustainability, does not mean we should take undue advantage of our neighbors. I hate the term “fair market value”.

 

I apologize for rambling and blathering my psychobabble. Please encourage me only if you want to hear more of my unorganized thoughts.

 

Cheers
Free Technology?  In what fashion do you mean?

Just curious...Do you think knowledge, research materials, methods and/ or equipment should be shared freely so that anyone that wants to can DIY.

 

For example; what if pharmaceutical companies or Coke were made to divulge their trade secrets so anyone with a head ache can go down to their community pharmacist and order a batch of aspirin or whatever made up.

 

Personally, I think it would make the world a much more wonderful place as long as buttheads don't steal and ruin it for everybody.

To a large extent I think that knowledge should be shared freely.  However, I don't think we can expect companies to manufacture equipment if they won't be paid for the materials or the overhead involved in manufacturing.  Kinda hard to keep employees to run the machinery if you can't pay them.

 

Now I'm not that big into the people patenting or copyrighting things like life (seeds and plants) or even those trying to claim the idea of aquaponics as being theirs to make money.  However, I also don't think that if I were to say write a book on the subject or produce a video, that I should be forced to just give up all that time/money invested to give it all away for free.  And I know that just because you give something away for free it doesn't mean that is the end of it, people expect you to answer questions and update the product and give them even more of your time.  Now some people do choose to give this kind of information away freely, but it isn't really free for them to do so, It is more like they have donated their time and money to do this. 

 

Now I don't really like how here in the USA we are having to pay for all the pharmaceutical companies costly research since in most of the rest of the world the drugs are being sold just above cost.  Some one has to pay for the research, the labs and scientists and years and years of research are not free.  If no one will pay for anything, how are the companies going to pay to have the work done? 

 

And then of course if you just take a formula down to the chemist and have them mix up your remedy, who are you going to sue if you get it wrong?  Better bet, if you have a head ache, go find a willow tree, and make a tea from some of the inner bark.

 

Perhaps it would make the world a better place but only if everyone were to do their fair share and share freely.  Problem is, getting people to cooperate in such a utopia like ideal society rarely works for long.  We would wind up with a very small portion of the population doing all the work and getting only maybe perhaps enough to survive themselves while everyone else is just letting the few do all the work.  There has to be some incentive to do the things that are needful and some disincentive to keep people from being lazy.  By brother and I disagree about the Intellectual property law, he thinks all software once written should be free to everyone.  So I ask, what would be the incentive to the programers to write a piece of software then?  He says well some one should pay to have the software written/developed but once it is it should be free to everyone else.  This doesn't really answer how the original some one should be able to afford the development.  Now there are thousands of examples of small bits of code and software that programers do and release for free as freeware or share ware but large, complex, important software that needs extensive development and lots of technical support, how do you pay the support staff if the product has to be offered to the world for free?  Heck, even with the stuff that costs a lot, it's hard to get good tech support.

 

Sorry, that kinda takes things way off topic.

Hi TC(Carey),

Since we are using the word "Sustainable" and Carey seems to be practicing several methods, can't we expand this topic to be more inclusive? Carey has a lot of techniques to share, which many can benefit from to enhance their own personal lives as well as expanding their AP knowledge. My experience on this site, so far, has been learning and sharing freely. This is somewhat different from what i have encountered in the past and gives us a joy to share without conditions. This is a world I would like very much to live in. The main idea of sustainability is to close the loop however it is done, if the options are made available it gives someone the choice to adopt all or part of, depending on his/her choosing/goals.

TCLynx said:

Carey,

     Six people on one acre, that is actually really impressive.  And We are also big supporters of closing the nutrient cycle and we humanure compost too (no need for separators the urine is the best compost activator but I suppose one might want to save some out for liquid gold fertilizer.)

 

I'm thinking perhaps Carey, I want you to start your own discussion thread here so you can tell us more about your farming techniques in particular (and not need to feel like you are hijacking if you stray off topic since it will be your own discussion.)  If you feel inclined please do it since it really sounds like you have a good permaculture operation actually running and are working on expanding even more.

 

TCLynx

I personally don't mind single threads getting really big/long but I was thinking by breaking it into an additional topic here in this same group we might be able to expand on things yet keep it a little easier to sort/search and send future questions to a particular thread to get answers to questions.  I know that can be tedious when you have to send them to a thread and remember which page the particular topic came up in a 20+ page discussion.  That's all.

 

I personally won't be offended if you carry on with whatever sustainability topics you wish right here.  I don't have a problem with complete hijacks of discussions myself.

Hi Carey,

After reading your replies, as usual the addictive AP in me had to look at ways and the means to close this nutrient loop, and i stumbled on this channel. They are many other videos of interest also. Thanks TC for the guidance!

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GreenLearning#p/a/f/0/CxSA5iiGgiY

Not sure what guidance I gave but you are welcome.
Thanks Harold, I'd love to watch anything other people have done, unfortunately I do live in communist China where youtube, facebook and many good sites are blocked and I don't have a VPN. Anyway, is it possible to embed them in an e-mail or something?

Harold Sukhbir said:

Hi Carey,

After reading your replies, as usual the addictive AP in me had to look at ways and the means to close this nutrient loop, and i stumbled on this channel. They are many other videos of interest also. Thanks TC for the guidance!

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GreenLearning#p/a/f/0/CxSA5iiGgiY

Hi Carey,

Try this please  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=812Y3E1S

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