A Community and Forum For Aquaponic Gardeners

Brand New need info!

Hi all my name is Dale Morris, I live in the very so. tip of Illinois in zone 6B. I have a small( 16X24) solar heated greenhouse now which I wand to convert into a aquaponics opertion. It is now heated by 5 -275 gal plastic tanks within alumiinmum cages. This is the basic info where I am starting. I am a traditional gardener, both dirt based and weed free raised bed gardening, but I know nothing about Aqaponics. Any feed back from the group would be very much appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Sheri Schmeckpeper on July 20, 2011 at 2:25pm

Dale, in answer to your question about whether you can use your existing tanks, yes. We have two tanks made from the food-grade totes, but you need to be sure they haven't held any toxic chemicals that could leach into your water, and be sure to clean them very well so there's no residual of anything in them. Then spray with bleach & let it dissipate before filling. You'll probably be raising cooler temperature fish, and since your totes are painted black they might get too hot for the fish during certain times of the year, so watch the water temperature. The benefit of the black is that it reduces algae growth.

Permalink Reply by TCLynx on July 20, 2011 at 2:39pm

Yea, I'm not sure that the barrels will work well for both heating and holding fish at the same time but certainly the containers could be used for the system which just means you may need additional black containers for solar heating.

As to learning about Aquaponics, here is a page you should read to help you get started and figure out what additional questions to ask Rules of thumb.

Permalink Reply by Mike Creuzer on July 20, 2011 at 3:44pm

How hot do the tanks currently get? I am guessing you are just using them as heat syncs, and are not actually actively heating the water in them, or are you doing something like a PEX solar water heater using the tanks as the resivour?

As long as the tanks don't have large temperature swings (and they aren't 30 or 90 degrees) you should be able to use them just fine for both fish and as a temperature stabilizer. Fish are sensitive to water temperature changes.

You will find that moving water into grow beds will release heat into the greenhouse tanks faster than the tanks do now.

It would be a good place to start converting 1 of your IBCs into a fish tank 'to get your feet wet' and after you have run it a year (or however long until your comfortable) convert 1 or more over to aquaponics. You can see the difference between the temps the fish tank runs vs the heat tanks and also if you need to insulate growbeds or have temporary cold frames inside the green house when it gets really cold.

I am up by Chicago, and have been rolling over the winter heat problem in my head. I don't yet have a greenhouse, and the spot where I could put one is currently pretty shady. I am a full zone colder than you (or was it two? I can't remember), so I think I have more work for me. I do know that I am planning on doing a setup simaler to where you are at now sans the propane heat.

Permalink Reply by DALE MORRIS on July 20, 2011 at 8:09pm

Thanks Mike, if I can figure out how to use the site, I think it will be really valuable. I do not have thermometers in my tnks right now. Since I only put the greenhouse in this Jan this is my first season. I haven't used it since May when I moved all the plants outside into my raised beds and gave away a huge bunch of bedding plants to friends & neighbors.

I don't know how hot it is in my tanks, (I'm afarid to find out in this heat. Since I'm not using the greenhouse during the summer it wasn't an issue yet but certainly will lbe if I put fish in them. I am sure I will need to put shade cloth up if I do aquaponics (what is the abreviation for aquaponics?)

I was thinking about putting my growin beds above the tanks. I am really excitied about what I have read so far. I am thinking bout using bluegill because they seem to tolerate a larger temp swing then some of the others. I am just learning so I'm sure I will ask some pretty stupid questions so thanks for your patience. Is there a spellchecker here? My spelling is atrocious.

Dale

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Mike Creuzer said:

How hot do the tanks currently get? I am guessing you are just using them as heat syncs, and are not actually actively heating the water in them, or are you doing something like a PEX solar water heater using the tanks as the resivour?

As long as the tanks don't have large temperature swings (and they aren't 30 or 90 degrees) you should be able to use them just fine for both fish and as a temperature stabilizer. Fish are sensitive to water temperature changes.

You will find that moving water into grow beds will release heat into the greenhouse tanks faster than the tanks do now.

It would be a good place to start converting 1 of your IBCs into a fish tank 'to get your feet wet' and after you have run it a year (or however long until your comfortable) convert 1 or more over to aquaponics. You can see the difference between the temps the fish tank runs vs the heat tanks and also if you need to insulate growbeds or have temporary cold frames inside the green house when it gets really cold.

I am up by Chicago, and have been rolling over the winter heat problem in my head. I don't yet have a greenhouse, and the spot where I could put one is currently pretty shady. I am a full zone colder than you (or was it two? I can't remember), so I think I have more work for me. I do know that I am planning on doing a setup simaler to where you are at now sans the propane heat.

Permalink Reply by DALE MORRIS on July 20, 2011 at 8:20pm

Thanks Sheri, my tanks had medical grade liquid silicone in them which was used in breast implants and are listed as non hazad.as they have been drained and filed with water for solar heating. Of course before I put fish in them I will steam clean, and disinfect drums thourghly. I also sell these tanks as a sideline so if the black ones don't work I can replace them with the clear ones easily. Thank you in advnce for any info you want to share.

Dale

Sheri Schmeckpeper said:

Dale, in answer to your question about whether you can use your existing tanks, yes. We have two tanks made from the food-grade totes, but you need to be sure they haven't held any toxic chemicals that could leach into your water, and be sure to clean them very well so there's no residual of anything in them. Then spray with bleach & let it dissipate before filling. You'll probably be raising cooler temperature fish, and since your totes are painted black they might get too hot for the fish during certain times of the year, so watch the water temperature. The benefit of the black is that it reduces algae growth.

Permalink Reply by TCLynx on July 20, 2011 at 8:23pm

Aquaponics, well many people will say AP

I'm just growing Bluegill for my first season now, they seem to be a pretty good fish so far, I know they are good eating and being smaller than Channel Catfish are more appropriate to a system with smaller tanks (I also grow catfish but have decided I like to have at least 300 gallons of water in a tank to grow them out since I tend to grow them big.)

The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask and get yourself into trouble because you didn't. This site can be a bit challenging to navigate so ask for help there too (there is a chat on the home page which might be useful for some quick questions.)

I use Mozilla Firefox as my browser and it has some spell checking capabilities which I find immensely useful.

Permalink Reply by TCLynx on July 20, 2011 at 8:24pm

I would probably recommend saving your black ones as heat storage and perhaps using food grade tanks for your AP system.

Permalink Reply by Sheri Schmeckpeper on July 20, 2011 at 9:50pm

We have the opposite problem that you do. Being in the desert, we have to address the summer heat. We have a greenhouse to keep things cool; as long as the temps stay below 100 we can grow year-round. One of our tanks is sunk in the ground, the other is above ground but wrapped with styrofoam. The one in the ground has stayed around 85 through the summer - 105 - 110 average temps for the last month. The above ground gets into the 90s, but as long as we keep the evaporative cooler running it stays cool enough for our tilapia. I imagine sinking a tank would insulate against the cold as well. Just something to think about. :)

Permalink Reply by TCLynx on July 21, 2011 at 5:51am

I'll make a quick caution here Sheri, the ground is only a good insulator if the temperature you want is close to the ground temperature in your area. Otherwise the ground is a huge thermal mass and in some parts of the country the ground will tend to keep the water too cool unlike in the desert or where I live where the ground temperature is really very nice.

Permalink Reply by DALE MORRIS on July 21, 2011 at 7:43am

Thanks to all for your valuable feedback so far. The thing I am most ignorant about is the fish part as I am an experienced gardener( for what that is worth. I want to use bluegill due to their ability to use a wider range of temperatures. how does the harvesting of the fish work? I assume you buy fingerlings, let them grow and at some point you have to harvest some of the biggest ones, am I correct in this? If I start with just one of my 275 gallon tanks, how many fingerlings do I need to start with? How big do the bluegill need to be before I start removing them?

Permalink Reply by Sheri Schmeckpeper on July 21, 2011 at 9:18am

Have you ever had an aquarium, Dale? If so you're familiar with the initial cycling that takes place. When you start your system, it has to go through the nitrification process. That's the hardest part, really. The fish waste turns to ammonia, which attracts bacteria that turns it to nitrites, which then attract another bacteria that turns it to nitrates. This is what the plants love. Unfortunately, with a 275 gal tank it takes a lot of waste to get it started, and when you have little fish it takes a long time.

So as not to lose tilapia, we started our tank with goldfish. Many will say never to do this because goldfish tend to be unclean and disease laden. We took care to make certain they were healthy, and it worked very well. They're messy fish, so they create a lot of ammonia. They can endure major stress, changes in temperature, and the chemical fluctuations that tanks have to go through. Ours have cycled two tanks (275 gal & 325 gal) and are huge now.

You have to test a lot at first so you can monitor the cycling process. First you'll see a rise in ammonia. You'll know you're progressing when you see nitrite levels rise. Not long after that ammonia levels will go down. The same will happen when nitrates develop; at this point you may get an algae bloom and you'll feel defeated because the water can look horrible! But this is a good thing, because it means plants will grow, and it will pass. Put your plants in when you see nitrate levels increase.

You should have lots of aeration, and some kind of medium for the bacteria to grow in. This can be gravel, rocks, a bacteria filter, or just the grow bed medium. I prefer at least two media just in case something happens to one of them.

After cycling, we removed the goldfish and let it sit for a few days just to guard against parasites. Then we added 45 fingerlings which are between six & nine inches now. We'll harvest with a fishing pole, just as a friend of ours does (we're about 3 months to our first harvest). If you use large enough hooks & bait, you won't catch the little fish, and you can always catch & release. As for the number of fish, If we eat 12/month, and it takes 6-9 months to maturity, we need about 100 fish in our tank, with 12 newbies added each month. We breed the fish in a separate tank so we can control parentage and quantity.

Your gardening experience will enhance your aquaponics. You'll find things grow faster and produce a more stable crop, but some things still prefer soil. We do both. Pests still hurt plants, so your knowledge of that will really help. Depending on your greenhouse, the beneficial insects may have a harder time getting to your plants, so you want to bring them in. The fun thing about all this is that everyone does things differently, and you can be as creative as you want!

Here's a link to my blog with information, geared to the beginner. It needs to be updated, but it might help. http://supurbanfarm.wordpress.com/aquaponics/

Permalink Reply by Sheri Schmeckpeper on July 21, 2011 at 9:26am

Thanks, TCLynx! I wondered about that & what you said makes sense. You have to understand your environment and work around the needs of the fish.

TCLynx said:

I'll make a quick caution here Sheri, the ground is only a good insulator if the temperature you want is close to the ground temperature in your area. Otherwise the ground is a huge thermal mass and in some parts of the country the ground will tend to keep the water too cool unlike in the desert or where I live where the ground temperature is really very nice.