Getting Organic Certification and Income Enough to Support Myself

[Dawn Jamison]

Hello,

I do not have a system yet and I am currently residing in Illinois.  I hope to be moving to the northern Arizona area early May 2013.  If I can line everything up I like to be able to begin installing my system upon arrival.  I am in the process of getting my business plan together and while doing research I received correspondence from a commercial aquaponics dealer.  I was told that most systems have difficulty getting certified as organic "except for their system."  Obviously I know some or all of this may be a sales tactic but is there any truth to this statement?   Has anyone out there tried to get certified and run into problems and do you have any feedback on this?  Does it mainly relate to the type of system used i.e. raft, media based etc?  I'd really like to be organic certified because I believe consumers are more trusting of those products and will be more likely to become repeat buyers.  I'd really like to be able to support myself from what I grow.  Does anyone have any info that can help me understand if I would be able to make enough money doing this to become self-sufficient and self-sustained, i.e. not needing to work for someone else, bring in enough income to live on?  There's not a lot of data out there relating to sales info and how local communities support aquaponics farmers.  CSAs and locally grown certified produce from soil based farms do have data but they are not quite the same.  I want to be sure this is something that will be worth my while.  I have gardened my entire live using organic methods.  I am highly interested in the Farm to School program and would really like to get involved in aquaponics education of students and their local communities.

Thanks,

Dawn

[Dawn Jamison]

Rupert, Ryan, Zachary & Vlad,  You have all cleared up some very important questions.  I realize I must get into the AP market quickly.  I have 2-4 family members that want to work with me to develop the AP system.  They make for a well rounded team with talents in different areas, marketing, organic gardening, customer service, etc.  Hybrid system seems more logical to me because it incorporates rafts for fast growing produce and media which allows for the produce that take longer to mature and are heavier so would not work in a raft system.  Until I can build strong partners through say a CSA or restaurants I will probably need to supplement what is grown in the AP system with what Ryan pointed out as niche products at least until I can build relationships with other businesses and private consumers in the community. I'm also probably going to do some soil grown items that can't grow in AP due to the need for a more acidic base.  I am very interested in selling to restaurants so your comments where quick encouraging Ryan.  Thank you all for your wonderful insights.  This group is fantastic.  The commercial AP company I corresponded with is called Friendly Aquaponics and they are based out of Hawaii.

[RupertofOZ]

Dawn... most of the current "farms"... either don't sell the fish... because they either aren't worth anything... or cost more to produce than their retail value... essentially they're just expensive fertilisers...

Or they do so.. without regard to licencing, food safety compliance etc...

In all honesty... and as a direct comparison to hydroponics, or soil market gardening.... a 1000sq mtr is as mcuh as a single person, or couple... can physically manage... especially if direct marketing... and you have to to get premium price...

Anything bigger means labour costs... volume production... crop turnover... and wholesale pricing... a whole new ball game... and 5-10 times the scale...

If you can't profitably grow and sell the fish component of an aquaponics operation... then you probably better off just running a hydroponic operation...

 

Or you can just run a simple DWC raft system... or hybrid.... as some bread and butter money... and run training sessions... like the rest...

Get in quick though.... the number of circles being drawn is rapidly increasing... even for a country as big as the US...

[RupertofOZ]

Zachary.. you forgot the fourth.. most prevalent aquaponics model... possibly the most currently "profitable"...

The "training model"... or "train the trainer"...

It's a bit like Amway... everyones scrambling to get in on the game... and secure their territory...

Those at the top... and the early "adopters"... do well out of recruiting/training others...

And the product itself isn't necessarily bad... but in the end.. those at the end... or below... just end up with a pretty expensive "product"... with little resale value... and little price return..

[Ryan Chatterson]

Ive been turning small scale profits (strictly on fish and veggies)for years and will have my larger operation up and running in a few months...which will be profitable. Technology is 1/2 of the puzzle but marketing is the other half. Get out, find out what the market wants and what they are willing to pay for it, then design your system around that markets needs/wants. 

I manage a rooftop aquaponic greenhouse that utilizes verticals and drip methods, the other wing utilizes NFT technology, and then I run an outdoor demo system that is mainly DWC raft with a couple tiny flood and drain tables. Take home? All of the methods work. There is no magical potion in a "hybrid" system which as Rupert mentioned is nothing new. Its more about using the best technology for the crop you intend to grow. Best meaning, grows the crop the best but ALSO is not a huge increase in risk for your farm (say DWC vs NFT...power goes out and an hour later you could be in trouble with NFT...DWC is less risky b/c of the water reservoir in contact with the roots).

Nate mentions raft is not being a viable technology but it certainly is for me...and I prefer it to many other methods not only because of its ability to grow great produce but because of the safety factor that it brings with it. There is also more research and data on raft technology then anything else out there so don't write it off. 

Also, when you look at different AP models to implement on your own farm, make sure it will actually pay the bills. It's pretty easy to do...just look at the total square footage of grow area, add up the planting sites available, add up what each site is going to pay you per month (you should know this from your market research), add up your estimated labor/costs and then subtract 20% (safety factor) from your total earnings. This will give you a good real world number of what you may be able to make out of your system. It also tells you if you're getting ripped off or not when you buy "turn key" systems. 

I can honestly tell you that down here in Central Florida, Aquaponic produce sells great. We've sold to everyone from The Ritz Carlton to the farmers market and I turn down restaurants WEEKLY that contact us and want to start buying our produce (but we already sell everything we grow). 

Start with market research, then go from there. :) 

[RupertofOZ]

@James W Sink

Three post since joining and each one extols the virtues of those running courses.... sure you're not the new PR man James...

I'm fully aware of what a "hybrid" system is James... I've been running one... in one form or other... for years, almost since I started aquaponics....

What I asked was "what are the advantages of a hybrid system... commercially..."

And while GreenAcres recently replaced 20% of their short rotation cropping operation to include a media bed with long rotation crops....

I have not seen any indication, or figures, from them that in any way suggests that the change to a hybrid operation is or can be stated to be either "successful"... "profitable"or "commercially" beneficial...

Training was run on the new "hybrid" system at Greenacres less than a couple of months after it was commissioned... and there are now some who undertook that training... that have bulit similar systems...

And are now also running the same training... in the methodology... often in conjunction with the same mentioned principles.

IMO... whilst there may be some benefit from hybrid systems... they are as yet completely uproven.. as having any commercial benefit...

 

@Zachary Larson

"In my opinion, a hybrid system can theoretically utilize more growing space by replacing the space required for filters with grow beds"

I'd challenge both assertions Zachary... the media beds don't necessarily negate the need for external filtration, and/or a degree of solids removel... indeed Murray's demo hybrid system includes a swirl filter for exactly that purpose...

And while I've been an advocate for media beds for many years... in my experience.. certainly with NFT... there's still need for pre-filtration of fine suspended solids that media beds just don't necessarily capture to the degree needed for NFT...

Murray acknowledges similar... by noting that in DWC rafts... fine sediment drops out in the DWC troughs...

Others have suggested the incorporation of Gammarus to deal with such problems...

As to Murray's blog regarding "hybrid" media beds... well the use of media beds to both act as nitrifying filters... and plant growth areas... along with the employment of worms...

Is neither anything "new"... or anything that he "discovered"...

[Zachary Larson]

@ Dawn: If you want training in the midwest, I would recommend Nelson & Pade over Growing Power. I have been to both. Nelson and Pade do easy to operate raft systems with tilapia but require a substantial financial investment (the 2nd model I mentioned earlier); Growing Power is a non-profit that survives only because of donations and grants( the 1st model). The only commercial hybrid systems I know of is Green Acres and Olomana Gardens but I have not been to either (although I would love to). Olomana Gardens is located on an island with a land and water shortage (the 3rd model); Green Acres offers training courses (which is a 4th type of profitable aquaponics business model that I left out earlier; I knew I was forgetting something).

In my opinion, a hybrid system can theoretically utilize more growing space by replacing the space required for filters with grow beds. I personally think hybrid is the future of aquaponics but I can personally provide no proof of such as extremely little solid scientific research has been done on hybrid systems. Also, because so little research has been done on hybrids, starting a commercial operation based on a hybrid system would be extremely risky. There are successful aquaponics operations out there but I really see no good way to start a commercial operation successfully without an extremely large start up budget.

Go to these places I mentioned, take the courses, and hold personal conversations with the trainers. Then find people who have been trained by them in the past and have started operations based on that training and hold personal conversations with them. This is the only way to find out if you think that you can personally support yourself with aquaponics.

[Vlad Jovanovic]

Dawn...A "hybrid" system is simply a system which incorporates both media beds as well as rafts. Generally the idea is that the media beds will hopefully provide the mechanical filtration as well as mineralization of solids that the settling tank/swirl filter/clarifier/net tanks normally would in a "traditional" DWC raft system...

I think its a little early to be touting the phrase "commercially successful" dot dot dot... in regards to any kind of AP, let alone a "hybrid" variant. Technically successful (as a system of agricultural production), sure...but from a purely commercial standpoint (depending somewhat on how you define 'commercial') it may be a little tough to find an AP farm that survives and thrives off of the sale of veggies and fish alone...hybrid or not. Not that there is anything wrong with providing education/classes and being financially compensated for it or otherwise diversifying your farms stream of income...quite the contrary...but an AP farm that turns a profit strictly on the sales of fish and plants...well, please let me know if you come across one.

The people who made money in the California gold rush generally were not the ones digging/panning for gold...but the ones selling picks, shovels, 'dreams' and other gear...Hopefully, the union of media beds and raft will be one step closer to someone being able to yell "EURIKA"! ...or at least get that someone a bit closer to earning a somewhat decent wage while putting in all those long hours and being able to claim a decent ROI.

[Dawn Jamison]

Can someone please explain the definition of a hybrid system as opposed to the raft & tilapia system Zachary mentioned below?  I am trying to figure out where I can go for the training.  Growing Power may be my best option since I live in the western suburbs of Chicago.  Can anyone suggest any DVD's worth purchasing?  I understand hands-on is best but with minimal funds now and lots of time (I'm currently unemployed) I want to invest wisely and use my time well.  

[James W Sink]

This is a successful hybrid system in the U.S.  http://greenacreaquaponics.com/  They are teaching and helping others copy their model.  There are several videos on youtube showing their system.  Murray Hallam who helped Green Acres set up their hybrid system gives a good explaination of the advantages on his blog page.  http://practicalaquaponics.com/blog/ 

[RupertofOZ]

@Zachary... what are the advantages of a hybrid system... commercially...

And can you link to a successful profitable hybrid commercial system..