IBC Aquaponics

Jeff has a point BUT it all depends on your level of prior experience.

My starter system is what you see in my photos (24' x 24'). I planned for future expansion in 8 foot increments off to the West side. I have been building things like this all my life so it all depends as I said on your individual experience and level of expertise. We have no way of knowing this about someone else so I say go for it based upon what you know, where you live and how many you plan on feeding.

I planned on paper (well computer) and broke ground in a weather break in January just one month after hearing the word "Aquaponics" for the first time and my layout has worked perfectly ever since. Of course there have been minor detail changes but all under the original floor plan and layout. That is what forums are all about. Take advantage of my and other's experience and apply it to your situation. You may be living in an apartment or on the family farm. Build and dream accordingly. Money might just be another factor that again we don't know. Personally I was looking for a layout and details I could copy but alas, after joining 3 forums, signing up for every newsletter I could, (yes IBC of AP is great but still no definitive details) I found no such layout and had to come up with my own based upon my land, my money, (scrounged nearly everything) and my desires. You should do the same but we are here to help. Just ask.

Personally I would start with a plan that will actually be big enough to grow food as opposed to a hobby. That was our intent from the get go and it has worked out perfectly. Commit yourself and it will happen.

Everyone here have very good ideas.  More totes = more grow space = more veggies = more chances for a bio-problem.  I have a 14-tote system inside a barn and the first thing I thought of was bio-security.  If all my totes were hooked together into one continous system, there is potential for a fish disease to halt ALL growth.  One disease will mean that you will have to shut down every tote and sanitize them, ALL.  My system that incorporates the 14 totes are run off of 7-pumps, one pump per two totes.  If something happens, I just have to shut down two totes while the other 12 keep running and growing.  I have seen large commercial systems/businesses go under because they didn't instate a bio-security contingency.  I know most here on the forum are enjoying their backyard systems of one, two or more totes.  If a disease hits these, not too much damage will insue, they still have to shut the system down and sanatize it.  That means the totes, grow beds MEDIA, piping pumps and everything that touched, water.  Do yourself a favor and at least consider a bio-secure set up. Just my two cents worth.  Click my avitar to check out my indoor system and how I seperated all the totes.

A good place to go for right on aquaponics info is Bright Agrotech on YouTube. Real information you can use. Another that I thought was entertaining and educational was Tilapia Man. 26 videos, watch them in order. It's like a TV series of a guy that took fish farming to all types of levels.

In my own experience, I had to "go large or go home"... mainly because I was converting an inground swimming pool with its whole established plumbing into an AP system. On top of that money was a major consideration.

Trying to be cheap (well TOO cheap) has cost me a little more in replacing some of my plumbing to a bigger size. That is my  feed lines for the grow beds started out as 3/4 inch and are now 1 1/2 inch. That change was only a little over a 100 bucks. I also started with styrofoam rafts instead of the blue Dow plates. I am replacing those as the old ones break.

But essentially, my system has not changed that much in the past year. I read all I could, listened to advice given in discussions here. Then I applied that advice as best I could. You can bet there are systems here that I would rather have. And if I were building from scratch, I would do alot of it very differently.

But part of the whole AP ideal is practicality...

If you want lots of pictures and ideas, look around.  Jim's page will provide you with pictures and links to what he has been doing here.

Then you can do a search for the Free PDF "IBC of Aquaponics" that the people over on the BYAP forum put together.  They give detailed info about getting a very simple IBC system set up and cycling but the IBC of Aquaponics is SO MUCH MORE because they detailed systems using IBC of many members of the BYAP Forum so there are so many different styles and Layouts to look at from basic tiny systems up to almost commercial scale systems using the entire IBC as a grow bed (providing plenty of filtration for a trout system in the desert.)

Think of your personal goals, needs and restrictions for your system.  Just because some one else does something, doesn't mean that is how you should do it.  However, if some one gives advice like use bigger plumbing and even bigger drains, they probably have very good reason for those warnings.

Building a first smaller system to learn from and be able to use for quarantine of new fish is actually a good idea, make sure it will be big enough to handle and filter for a new batch of fish for at least 6-8 weeks.  Make sure your fist batch of fish is extra small though since you will probably be growing them out in the first learning system.  FYI a simple single IBC system is only good for about 12-16 fish growing out to 1 lb each.  If you grow channel catfish or some fish that will grow bigger than 1 lb in 12 months you definitely need to stock them accordingly (as in make sure they have plenty of fish tank and filtration to grow to 2-3 lb because if you over crowd them without enough filtration you will wind up with sick fish that are really horrible to watch die.)

Make sure to leave yourself enough space for walkways and access to fish tanks and sump tanks.  If it is too hard to access something for regular maintenance, it won't get done and the system will suffer for it.  Remember plants can grow into quite the jungle and plants that are all piled on top of each other are often not as productive as they might have been if you thin them out a bit.  You still need to be able to reach the plants to harvest.

Good Luck

I wanted to use the IBC cap that has a 2 inch threaded hole as my bell. I could not find a threaded adapter that is long enough to thread anything on the bottom. Does anyone have a photo of how this can be used?

As Tc stated, if you don't have it by now, download the free PDF "IBC of Aquaponics" It has fantastic information.  I tried to use the 2" cap for my bell siphon without success so I repositioned it to one corner of the grow bed.  That said, maybe you will have better luck than I so don't be discouraged from my experience.  I have a 14-unit IBC set up I'm still working on (the build is complete just doing the electric now) The units are all functioning good with the bell siphons.  If you have good luck with using the center cap, please post your results, I would be interested in reading it. 

I have looked at the IBC of Aquaponics and got many good ideas but did not see anyone using the cap for the bell siphon. 

Using the cap is a bad idea especially if you also plan to use the top of the ibc for gbs. Why have to design and use 2 methods? Just look at my bell siphon design and place it in the opposite corner from your inflow as I have shown in my photos. You want the raw sewerage (sorry but that is exactly what it is) to have the maximum flow thru the gravel or media bed in order to have max exposure to the bacteria before returning to the sump (just like a municipal sewerage system which also uses media beds and then flows back into our rivers). Unless you build a surround style inlet manifold, which WILL plug up with raw waste, you will end up with a dead corner (no flow thru) and that spells trouble. Keep it simple stu...

Caps should be dismantled completely and washed, "o"ring and all, in dishWASHER detergent and then reattached using silicone or you will have leaks down the road. There is a terrible tendency to over engineer everything when simple is always better. As to siphon design I have now sold nearly 300 without a single complaint and they are simple but smart and based upon proven designs of others, mainly Affnan's 2-1 principal (look it up). As to mounting it in the IBC, they are tough enough (the ibcs) that we never use "bulkhead adapters" but simple TAs. (threaded adapters) with a #18 "o"ring on the 1" and a #15 on the smaller barrelponics 3/4" bell siphons (1 1/4" and 1" holes respectively). That cuts the price of each siphon nearly in half and in 1 1/2 years of continual operation we have never had a siphon or cap leak. Only leak I have had was a patch where I drilled the 1 1/4" hole right over a support joist by mistake and had to patch that hole. Measure AND LOOK twice: drill once

My goal is to help others build their systems at the best possible price but with the best possible results. With all that is going on in the US these days from GMOs to chemtrails, (go ahead and laugh at your own peril, have u tasted the snow lately?) feeding your family and neighborhood using aquaponcs is becoming more and more urgent. Big gov and big corp have merged and taken over at our detriment. Party affiliation makes no difference anymore so this is not a political statement. It is we the people vs the political/corporate banksters. Get your food system built now and plan for future expansion because you will want to expand when you taste the results of your labor.

I used 2" PVC for mine. It's been a while so I don't recall exactly what fittings I used but when I changed it from gravity drain to a bell siphon I reduced it to 1" drain. I'm going to assume that if you put a 2" nipple through the opening and press fit the outside and the inside with a 2" to 1" reducer for the bell siphon you can get a good enough seal provided you are draining directly into your tank. For a tighter seal use silicone or O ring.

"if you also plan to use the top of the ibc" Sorry, I meant to say "the bottom" of the IBC. One can never proof read enough I guess

I forgot to mention that I was using the cap. That does seem to be the most logical thing to use.

@Jeff Sullivan I was going to build the bell siphon in cap but could not find a PVC 2 inch nipple at the big box store, what kind of nipple did you use?

I agree with Jim F. that the bell siphon should be placed oppisite the water inflow. With my system, I am not too worried about leaks as the parts that could leak are over the FT.  This dripping just helps airate the FT water.  Most airation occurs at the surface when it is disturbed.  Yes, SOME airation occurrs with the bubbles from an airstone but the majority happens when these bubbles break the surface.  So, IMHO, any leake back into the FT just helps in oxygenation of the FT water.  Leaks do not bother me too much.

  I purposly drill holes in stretigic places, mainly the low spots in my GB.  I do this for the purpose that in the instance the electricity goes out, the GB will totally drain insuring that no stagnate areas occur.

Thanks again for all your input.

@Jim Fisk, I was looking at your photos again and I think I am going use your idea of the solid filter when I do build to help remove dirt from my media before it goes to the sump. Did I overlook it, or is there a drain in the small barrel to get the solids out or do you just pull the barrel?

The nipple is just a short piece of 2" PVC pipe that would slip between the reducers. If you are using the to of the IBC for your grow bed then the cap would be the lowest part of your GB so logically that's where you'd put the siphon. Leo ws correct about any leak would be over the FT anyway.

@DJ, for now I just run a hose down the hill and siphon out the solids. I will put a drain into the inside tank next Summer.

You guys are right with the GB over the FT, Leaks are no worries. Personally I wanted the grow beds at a better working height as that is where all the work is done vs the FTs that just need food tossed in. Being in a row sitting on their deck I of course wanted no leaks under the GBs. Also my peas and even tomatoes grow 8' high so a high GB would be restricting. At 2' height the tall plants have plenty of vertical room given my 10' height to the GH.

I figured at least 2 - 3 GBs per full size 330g FT so the GB over just would not cut it. I like plenty of trout and they like a full uncut FT.

BTW it is -4F outside as I sit here and the woodstove is keeping the GH at 35-40F. Burrrr

@Jim

I ordered #100 Trout 1-1/2 " i'll give them a try (to cold for tilapia) its 45* or so for our lows at night & around 65* to 70* during the day  got to just LOVE this climate ...

I'm keeping the tilapia in small 120 gal tank & heat to 75*, they seam to like it 

I'll just do weekly or bi-monthly water changes it gb for top offs

thanks to everyone for the advice 

will see how this works

Sounds great Brad. This last batch of trout have grown twice as fast as the first one. I have to assume the maturity of the system has something to do with it.

Hey, keep an eye on the Fuki radiation levels out there. We are getting reports way out here on your levels going up. Another good reason to have a GH. Rain is the worst offender. What are you hearing? Never know what to believe anymore.

they aren't telling us anything, but the internet tell of fish in L.A. with acceptable level of radiation ? needless to say sushi is not for dinner anytime soon..

I do have issues with the GB being too high so I have planted another IBC about 2 ft. in the ground next to it with insulation. I will be transferring the fish there and lowering the GB to cover about half of the FT and still drain above the FT.

BTW it's -12 here and I had to add a propane heater to keep the temps up in my 8 by 10 greenhouse. Was just using a space heater. Not the most economical for sure. I have a wood burner but haven't installed it yet.

Hi Layne and welcome to our IBC group. From what I gather from some of the IBC suppliers he is right. The cap and valve will be green if it was USED for food grade material. None of mine were "green" but I stick with water based rather than petroleum based materials as the water based don't tend to penetrate the plastic and rinse right out. If I had waited for green around here I would be still waiting or paying way more than I can afford. 120.00 each around here for "food grade" and 45 for pristine looking non food grade totes. I raise trout and they seem very healthy after nearly 2 yrs up and running.

I look for totes that still have the labels and base my purchase on that. I have used "veg oil based lubricant or cutting oil" totes from a local international tool manufacturer but they are a bit hard to clean like any dried up veg oil but I feel they are among the safer bets. Avoid any stained looking totes especially if they have held waste oil as they are nasty in every way. I have found some "green" ones that were used for waste oil and they are ruined as far as AP is concerned so having a history is important. I have turned down some nice looking totes because all the labels were gone. I would also ask in your area as I have been told that you can get new liners for as low as 25.00 if you have a good cage, lid and valve. I have not chased that down yet but I plan to as you can find nasty totes in perfect cages often for free.

The lid, large "O" ring and ball valve should be completely disassembled and washed with dishwasher detergent in hot water before reuse in any case unless it was truly food grade contents. Dishwasher detergent and bleach are pretty good at cleaning out almost anything if it has not penetrated the liner pores.

13F and windy here tonight (3 am) and I just reloaded the woodstove in the GH. Looking forward to Spring real soon I hope. I can monitor the GH temp from 250 feet away at the house thanks to a 30.00 Sams remote thermometer that is only rated for 60 feet (and rarely go that far). I happened to place the sender in the bracket for an 8' steel Unistrut shelf system I made to support 3 55G drums for passive solar heat and it seems to act like an antenna for the little sender. Who would have guessed that one. Talk about dumb luck. What a difference that has made in terms of knowing what is going on way out there in the GH.

Layne-

I also live in farm country in central Wisconsin.  Check out the "Dairy equiplimt supply" buisnesses.  That is where I found mine for $25.00 each if I bought 4 or more, or $35.00 each.  Much better than $120.00 which I have read from the post by Jim F.

Great post Leo. I will ck into that around here as well. Any time they are on Craigs List they are that high or higher around here. I will stock up for sure if I can find any close to that here. I have my doubts. I still plan on changing mine out if I can find FGs at anywhere near that price.

That source that gets 25.00 for new liners is in the SC area as I recall if anyone there cares to look into it. A bit of a run from here or I would have chased that down already. Brandy new liners at that price sounds like the best bet of all if we can find the source. It was a local oil recycler that told me about them.

Where I've heard about getting new liners, they were generally WAY more $$ than that.  It was about equal to buying a used complete food grade IBC.

In general the resins for the HDPE plastics most roto molding companies use to make such containers is going to be FDA approved for use in food contact containers.  If the IBC is anything other than that natural sort of translucent white color though, check to make sure.

I agree to avoid any pesticide or herbicide container (unless you are talking about chorine or vinegar which should dilute, rinse and air out well enough.)

I have used fertilizer containers which is what most of the IBC's available around here are.  You have to make your own choices on those but if you freely choose to eat food that was grown using those fertilizers, how uncomfortable can you be about eating food out of the containers after they are very well rinsed out?

The choice to use a container that once contained oil or soap should be based upon your ability to really get that very well cleaned out, there is a reason people are told never to wash fish tanks with soap, it is very difficult to get all soap residues rinsed completely away and a tiny big of soap residue can kill fish if you are not very lucky.

You need a very ample water supply to deal with getting rid of all oil and soap residues. This might not be an option for people in arid regions that have to buy in or truck in water.

I know there are some places that get their chlorine for treating water in blue barrels or IBCs, there may also be food or beverage companies that get food ingredients in barrels or IBC tanks.

Good Luck

I am working on a build where I will have a full IBC sump tank buried about 3/4 of the way into the ground and the FT will be 1 or 2 IBC totes sitting on the ground. 

My question is should I remove the bottom of the frame so the liner sits on the ground to cool in summer and heat in winter? I was also thinking of putting 6 inches of lava rock under the sump tank to keep it from getting muddy when it rains, will this hurt the tank or are they strong enough?

Hi DJ. Personally I buried my 275 level or just below the surface. Now I wish I had buried a 330 but at the time I had never even seen a 330 around here. Rumor only. I may well pull that one this Summer and replace it with a beauty of a 330 I pu recently for 40.00. Now of course I see them everywhere. That will give me more latitude as to how many siphon beds I can expect to function properly without ever running dry. I will have 15 by Summer in op. My system is over 2000 gal but the utmost in simplicity as one 1200 gal pump runs everything and the siphons have never failed to do their thing for nearly 2 yrs now.

The reason for burying it all the way is to give you the most flow thru the system and by keeping the ibc GBs at thigh height and the FTs at the highest position that makes sense you get wonderful gravity flow throughout the system. (You can also put a floor over it and use that space) My highest FT is a 275 set at about 12" off the ground on a garden tie cribwork and each subsequent ft is one tie's worth lower (3.5") for a total of 5 fts. The last 3 are 330's and don't seem so high being at the lower end. All designed to keep flow at a max and avoid any buildup in the pipes. Check my pics for how I went about that.

I put sand under the sump sans pallet (afraid of rust eventually) and when I redo the sump this Summer I will instead use 2" styrofoam under and around the tank cage so I have more control over temps. (Ugh that is going to suck) I have a hard time keeping the system water above 50 in the Winter especially at the temps (20F below) that we have had this Winter. I want to be able to keep it between 60 and 75 year round for max growth of fish (trout) and veggies. Cooling in the Summer for me is less of a challenge as it turns out as I have unlimited free 55F water (artesian well and no pump). I would be careful of the lava rock. Last thing you want is a leak down the road. It can be very coarse.

Well I hope this helps and I am thrilled to see you moving along with your system. Click my avatar to go to my page and ck my design and pics.

Jim,

Thanks for your info. I have looked at your photos several times over the past few months looking close to the details. I must say it is impressive! Below is what I have so far, the photo shows 3 of 4 GB that on blocks so the bottom is 2ft off the ground. The FT is top left and the sump tank is scheduled to go just to the left of the left fish tank. 

You talked about gravity keeping everything moving , is this high enough or should I go up one more block? 

I do not have to worry much about -20F outside more like 20F in coldest part of winter and 115F in summer. Looking at catfish as they have a good temp range and state will allow them.

DJ, the only part that could be higher is the FT as that water will be full of solids. The water from the GBs is just that: clear water and will flow well regardless. So the biggest height difference should be between the FT(s) and the GBs to keep the solids moving. My GBs are perhaps a bit lower than yours. I will get a measurement today. You couls always drop the GBs a bit with half blocks or simply burying the lower block half way. Otherwise right on the money.

I love the questions because my (eventual) system ebook will benefit from your perspective more than mine if that makes sense. It is hard to always see things from your perspective as opposed to mine so keep them coming. I am stalled on it because I had to take a year off from GH / system construction so that has delayed my booklet. But the veggies and fish have kept rolling at least.

As for ground temperatures and "should you couple your system to ground temperatures" you need to look up your locations average ground temperatures and and desired water temperature of your system and compare them.

If your locations average ground temperature is colder than your year round desired water temperature, then you do NOT want to couple your water temp to the ground, you will want to Insulate as Jim mentions he is going to do.

If your year round average ground temperature is Perfect for your desired water temperature for your plants/fish then by all means bury things and get as much contact with the ground as you can.  (NO not lava rock that would be dangerous to the IBC tank and it wouldn't transfer temperature well anyway)

In my location Inland Central FL, the ground temperature is great for fish like catfish and bluegill and possibly even good enough for Tilapia (though in my opinion they are over rated.)

Do be sure you design the system such that a heavy rain event won't risk floating a partly empty tank out of the ground on you though.  And keep in mind that dirt pressing in on the sides of an IBC liner can crush the tank in.

All good points TC. The ideal solution would be to take advantage of both scenarios somehow. In the Winter I would like to "uncouple" as the ground temp is too low but in the Summer when the ambient air is too high that 55F ground temp is very useful. I am in the envious, perhaps, position that my water is totally free so I can dump and refill all I like to keep the system compatible with Trout so I have come to the conclusion that isolation would be best especially after THIS Winter. For others the ability to uncouple at will could be very advantageous. Any thoughts on how we could go about this other than 2 sumps?

After checking the ground temps I think it will help to have the bottom of tote sitting on soil. I will be using plywood or foam on the outside of tote cage to protect from being crushed and add some more insulation.  Thanks for the info.

Hi Jim, might be a little crazy, but here's an idea.  Keep the sump insulated as you stated, but have 2 paths to feed it from your beds, one that travels underground, and an alternate one that could be used to bypass the ground coupling.  Being discharge from the beds, it should be pretty clean, so you could even make it an extended trip so it could exchange thermals with the ground even more.

@DJ, our soil here is very high in clay so we can dig straight down save for boulders and roots so I simply filled the IBC with water after it was in place and PRIOR to back filling. The cage helps as well. Once it was back filled I soaked and packed it even more and it set up hard. Pull any rocks from the backfill.

@Arther, good idea. I could bury a loop the length of the fish room and back (24') under the walk way as that rm is always in the shade. Low priority but down the road it could well help.

I still hope to find the time to make a pvc solar collector for the back wall of the GH and that will be on a separate pump triggered by a differential thermostat and heat the sump on those cold but sunny days. Winter heating is still a bigger fish to fry here than Summer cooling and that should be a big help and along the same lines. The GH can hit 90F plus on a cold but sunny day here.

I was going to recommend Arther's Idea of a ground loop for cooling.  Especially good with a low flow pump and lots of loops of pex pipe running a few feet underground.  Moist clay is a far better heat exchanger than the sand I get to deal with here.

@Jim Firtsk spent a few hours playing in the dirt and got almost all the hole dug for sump tank. Here is one of the photos I uploaded.

Yup DJ, I remember it well but where are your 4" roots and 100# boulders? I needed a chain saw and our front end loader along with the shovel and pick ax. Good news is it is all worth the effort.

 No heavy equipment needed, a small back hoe rented for $300/ day was to much for me to fund so I bought a pick ax and bottle of pain killers!   Biggest root was about 1.5" and they were all in the sandy soil and gravel that was the first 2 feet. Then it was hard red dirt that I think is clay. Hope to get the last little bit cleaned out tonight.

I totally agree. If you don't need to dig it in one day for some reason it is really not a bad job in most soils. Just great exercise and one or two Aleves and I will be 68 this year so I need all the exercise I can get. The clay here is hard digging as well but the good news is you can dig straight down with no cave ins. Now feeding 4 woodstoves all Winter and felling and cutting and splitting and drying and hauling... enough of this global warming already.

If the globe is warming up too much in one place, it has to be colder elsewhere!!!!  Your it this winter I guess Jim.

I'm happy our sandy soil makes digging easy but then our climate makes putting tanks in the ground a bit more dangerous.  Make sure you plan drainage and such to avoid having a partly empty tank float out of a hole!!!!  That sucks.

http://www.theaquaponicstore.com/1-Plumbing-Parts-s/150.htm

A little planning would have saved me much money! 

I had some time a couple of weekends ago and started building my grow beds. I went to the home store and ended up buying bulk head fittings for about $20 each. the web site above has a unit close to the one I have for $7-10 each plus shipping.  Still would have saved much money and time.

DJ, please join Ebay if you are looking to save $ on such items. I purchased half a dozen delivered for about 4.00 each and they are perfect although I have yet to need one. I got them in case a customer screws up the 1 1/4" siphon hole but to date have not needed one. One must compare prices on everything these days and Ebay rules most of the time as there is always someone dumping something for so many reasons. Not always, but most of the time. Truth be known however, having made about 300 siphons now, I have yet to use a "bulkhead fitting" All you need is a male plumbing threader adapter, a female ELECTRICAL TA, and an "O"ring. About 2.00 for all three in 1".

Yea, TC it has been cold here but not at all bad compared to most of the Midwest. We seem to always be on the warm side of the "Polar Vortex" I am pleased to say. Having said that we have gone from 60F at night last week to 14F this week. But then our balmy Summers at 70F are so sweet. And we can raise Trout

I have discovered that the Uniseal works great. I have used it only on side tank outlets so far but wouldn't hesitate to use them on the bottom of a tank, especially if it were over my FT or sump to catch any small drips that might occur. I see they offer them at the site DJ recommended.  http://www.theaquaponicstore.com/1-Plumbing-Parts-s/150.htm

BTW they are available in many sizes. I've seen them in hydroponic stores but more expensive.

I have had success with male and female threaded pipe fitting of matching size.  I take left over pond line and cut gaskets to just fit over the male threads and the place it on the outside  with the male fitting going into the tank.  As tight as I can get by hand has worked so far.

DJ-

I agree with Jim F.  I purchase from Home Depot the male and female electrical conduit fittings in 1" size along with the o-rings for my set-ups and with tightening them habd tight, I have found no leaks what-so-ever in over 3-years of use.  For a few bucks, you can't go wrong. 

  Must be nice to have such balmy weather, we also have balmy weather here in Wisconsin, it got all the way up to -4 today WooHoo break out the tee shirts and shorts, we're having a heat wave.