IBC Aquaponics

Yes Leo it is nice to live in Southern UT! We do not get the extreme cold and snow or the extreme heat like Yuma, AZ. 

Got some work done on the system over the weekend and built a bulk head with PVC fitting from HD and got just a tiny leak. However i noticed that the water level is within 1/2 inch from the top of the tank so the drain may become my "emergency overflow" and I put in another one a little lower. I will be looking through photos to see where you all put FT drains. 

I also was one step ahead of myself and had about 3 inches of rock in GB before I noticed we had not built the guard. Made a mad dash to HD and got 2 buckets for 1/2 the price of the only  2 ft 6 inch pvc  they had in stock. Once back at the house I found some buckets left over from another project I got free from a restaurant. 

DJ-

  Click on the bear and that will get you to my page.  There you will find pics of my IBC system and get an idea of what I did for the water inlet manifold.  This set up works well for me but there are many other configurations as there are aquaponic enthusiests.  If it works for you then it's the best that works for now, maybe you'll want to change it and maybe not.  Just remember that you are not a grower of fish or veggies but a culturer of bacteria.  The fish and veggies are a benefit of aquaponics.  The main thing is, have fun.

Looking to speed up the cycle. Has anyone used this product?

Nope, I just used mountain stream water and pure ammonia to get things going. Also DJ if you are pumping any solids from the FTs into that manifold you will be clearing those ball valves at least twice a day as they get clogged up and also remember you should not restrict the output of a a pump but rather the input OR better yet, use a bypass back to the source, be it a sump or FT, to control flow. Restricting the output is bad for the pump (heat and wear) and will use quite a bit more power ($). Anything that slows down a motor results in increased amperage as the motor is designed to run at a specific rpm and it will draw a lot more power to try and get back to that rpm. Kind of a layman's explanation but essentially that is what happens. Just like your having to give your car more throttle to go up a hill and maintain the same motor rpm.

SO let it flow full out and use other methods to control flow. Besides those ball valves are the most expensive part of your plumbing and in my 2000+ gal system I have only one and that is to control the flow thru the ss coil in the woodstove so as to avoid too much creosote forming on a too cold pipe in a very hot stove. That is the only one. I balance the input to my 5 present GBs by simply rotating a 1" 90 at each bed. No restriction, just a balancing method and extra flow goes back (bypass) to the sump via my polyfill filter that removes algae at the same time.

BTW any filters, solids, algae, etc should have a bubbler stone in the bottom to make sure there are no anaerobic colonies setting up shop in there.

Thanks for the info on "Starter bacteria kits". Not having any luck in finding pure ammonia in town, any sugestions. What do you think of the starter kits that Aquapoinic source has on line?

As for the the valves they were needed to get enough water to the FT. The FT is the high point and has no valve restricting it at all.  

I had a similar problem finding pure ammonia.  Try dollar stores.  I found it at a Dollar General.

There are several things you can try and seaweed extract start my system. I've even heard of people pressing in their systems I would try it myself

It is gross and not too many people know this but, my first system was started from my cat box.  Yeah, yeah, I know but it worked very well.  Of course I did the FISH LESS cycling until I could find some straight ammonia to continue, but it worked.  Now, I add water from my inhouse aquaponic system in the spring form y out doors set ups

Ace Hardware may have pure ammonia.  Or you can look for powdered Ammonium Chloride (only takes like 1.13 grams to bring 100 gallons to 1 ppm) so make sure you can measure the amount you use as you actually don't want to over dose the ammonia.

Ammonium Chloride

Now if you are not too grossed out by it, you can produce your own ammonia supplement to cycle up a system "Pee Ponics"  If you seal the urine of a healthy person up in a bottle for several weeks the urea content will convert into ammonia, the pH will rise and kill off pathogens like e. coli which are likely to be in fresh urine in some small quantities.

Don't remember for sure where I got my ammonia but I don't remember searching for it. I'm thinking Kroger. You might find some at a janitorial supply company.

My wife seems to recall we got our pure ammonia at the Dollar Store as well. Any healthy stream water will be loaded with the right bacteria if you can find one in your area. Here in the Cherokee National Forest we are surrounded by pristine mountain streams. That and a dozen goldfish is all we needed after a week of the ammonia. Keep in mind it takes 6 mos. to a year in an average size family feeding system to get stabilized. 2000+ gal in our case. Peeing in your system with all the meds, hormones and such that are in our every day life (food, meds, etc.) should be a last desperate choice IMHO. No warm blooded anything should go into your system. Not even mouse droppings. This is a closed system, not a constantly refreshing outdoor stream or lake. What makes AP safe, within limits, is the cold blooded fish aspect. You should even avoid bird droppings and thus a GH is your safest control with screens in the Summer.

Found ammonia hydroxide at Ace Hardware. Put 1 1/2 cup into AP system of about 550 gal and spiked the level over 8 PPM. OPPS  now I am changing water out to lower it.

DJ-

It's easy to over do the ammonia first time around, mark this as a learning experience.  Try to keep the ammonia around 3 - 5 PPM, preferred level is 3-ppm.  This gives the bacteria achance to grow slowly which you want.  These bacteria are slow growing so keep this in mind and you be doing fine.  Keep up with the water changes until your tests show the 3-ppm to 4-ppm.  Good luck and keep up the good work.

DJ, in my 2000g system I was using 1 CAP full at a time. Patience my friend. Always favor moderation. Who ever suggested cups? OMG. 1 cap full and test the next day. Slow and steady with any ecosystem. You are dealing with microbes, not cats (9 lives and all that) and once you have fish in there all the more careful as they can be easier to kill than the microbes. And once again, the larger the system the more the leeway.

I have a 50gal system in my house with Nitrate very high and was going to start doing a water change out and put it into the larger system outside to help the cycle time. At what level of ammonia would that be OK?

DJ,  I don't think water alone will help with cycle time.  The bacteria live on surfaces and are not water-borne.  While cycling, you want to keep you Ammonia at around 3-4 ppm.  With that said, if you have plants in the cycling system, I'm sure they would appreciate the nitrates.

DJ-

While A. King is correct, that bacteria need a surface to grow upon, they are also water-born to an extent.  In my glass 55-gallon aquarium indoors, there is a brownish growth on the glass.  This is the bacteria we are talking about.  If you want to use the water change to start up your outdoors system, brush the sides of your FT and suspend the "film" in the water prior to the change over.  This will introduce these bacteria into your new system.  That said in answering your question, the best way to jump start the system outdoors is to introduce some of your current media into your grow beds.  Be sure to bury the "seed" in the new grow bed media as these bacteria are susseptable to light, meaning light will harm / kill them.  I always transport my "seed" in a 5-gallon pail lined with a black plastic bag.  Don't worry too much about the bag and what it is made of as the transferrence will be brief.

I have 4 BGs  draining into an IBC buried so the water falls about 12 inches to 36 inches depending on water level at the time so it is turbulent. I just put some goldfish into my tank and they are doing fine. Is this water fall going to put enough oxygen in the water to keep larger catfish alive?

Hey DJ,

4 BGs? OMG. Just kidding, GBs. Anyhow, is that a sump or a FT? It should be your sump. No fish. Your FTs should be the highest point in your system which can simply mean sitting on a pallet as they are about 4' deep (constantly with no variation) and then your GBs should be at about knee to hip high and those simply drain back to your sump. All that work burying that tank I suggest making it just a sump for sure (if in fact it is not) as then you have what I consider the very best layout.

One reason I say that is: when it comes time to catch the fish it is SO much easier just to drain the FT down to say a foot (ball valve already there) and then net them. BUT keep in mind netting Catfish is a dastardly deed because the whiskers get all tangled up in most nets and can even kill the fish not to mention the 10 minutes it can take to untangle each fish and the blood you may loose as well. And keep in mind there are bacteria on the fish that you do NOT want in your cut.

As to your question: For cats you may have enough air there but a small air pump can give peace of mind although at the IBC depth you need a more powerful air pump than a standard vibrator type. They simply do not produce enough power to push the air that deep. For Trout, not enough air for sure. If it is the sump and not the FT you loose a bunch of air by the time it gets to the FTs. So if that is the case I would add an air pump for sure to the FT(s). Not knowing anything more about your system this is about all I can suggest.

Here is the layout I mean:

Thanks Jim,

My typing is as bad as my spelling 

I have 4 Grow Beds! and that is a photo of the sump tank. My system pumps from the sump tank to the fish tank and the grow beds and they all flow back to the sump.  The FT is the high point even if this photo looks like the BG is higher as I am standing next to it. The smaller 15 gal is stuffed with filters for a swamp cooler was used to remove dirt from water during fish less cycle that came from rock despite how much rinse we did before hand. It will be removed latter today stop algae growth.

OK, that raises the question why? Why can't you just pump to the FTs and let that flow by gravity to the GBs and from there by gravity back to the sump? and if there is too much flow for the GBs for now, as in my case, send the excess sump water back to the sump via the "bypass". That way everything flows thru the GBs before going back to the sump and the sump stays pristine.

Also holy pipe maze there batman. Hope that is temporary. You won't find any pipes in the way in my 2000g, 5 FT and 5 GB (so far) system. My returns to the sump are all under ground before they even leave the GB bench so you never even see them until you open the sump and look in. Just a suggestion. I am in a GH with 4 walls and that divider wall between the fish room and the hot house so that does make things a bit easier I understand. I am a master electrician and I hate the look of wires and electrical components so I am anal about making sure all that crap is well hidden. Just me being me.

The dotted lines (returns) are all under ground and the feed flow lines are against the walls for a very clean look when it is all done. I have that raft bed about half built and hope to have it on line shortly. The front 30" high block wall is still under construction so I can't start that row of GBs yet. I have decided to use some barrelponics and one of those great 10' feed troughs from TSC as well. They go on sale for 99.00. Such a deal what with their tubular steel frame and all.

I also plan on a 330 cut for GB and FT (probably where the hot tub is in plan) as well as an aerated compost barrel with an IBC GB over that so I can play WITHOUT fish as well. By Fall it should all be in place. Then next year I can expand out past the wood stove wall another 16' for a large round FT for the Trout. That's the plan anyway if life doesn't get in the way.

Speaking of which one of our Nubian goats dropped 4 dynamite looking kids today. That cost us an afternoon of drying, warming (in the GH) and teaching them all how to nurse. First time mom so 4 is extraordinary. One more Nubian and one sheep to go. Have one new lamb already (brother got in with goats and perished). Spring time on the farm never gets old. What a zoo we will have this Summer.

http://www.theaquaponicstore.com/Aquaponics-Systems-AquaBundance-To...

Well early in the learning and planing part of this I watched the video above as well and everything Dr. Nate Story had to say on building systems. One of the big things they talked about was being able to isolate any part of they system from another and it give greater flex when you want to add. 

Jim, I was looking at your GH diagram. I'm not sure I'm reading it right. Looks like the GBs get fed directly from the FT and drain to the sump. From all I've read, and believe me I get confused, wouldn't feeding the FT to the flter then to the GB to the raft then to the sump be the better way to run it?

When you are using media GBs they are the filter and you don't need any other filter. The GBs harbor all the bacteria that converts the ammonia and filters out the solids. When you are running any raft beds THEN you need to filter out the solids FIRST by running them either after the media beds OR using a swirl filter for removing solids and a bio-filter to convert the ammonia to nitrites which then must be converted to nitrates BEFORE the raft bed or you will get root rot. The media beds do all that BUT if you want to keep everything looking nice and neat you can use a swirl solids filter to keep the solids out of the media. It is that simple so let's not make it any more complicated than necessary.

My media beds have been running great for 2 yrs now with no swirl filter on line. Worms help keep the media clean as well. I use my "swirl/bio-filter" just on the adult Trout tank to help keep their water cleaner. They are voracious eaters and poopers so that gives their tank (one of five FTs) an extra boost of "clean"

As far as "being able to isolate any part of the system from another and it give greater flex when you want to add." is concerned, I do isolate the FTs one from the other so that if any diseases hit a tank it does NOT drain from one FT to the other. Each FT drains to a common drain and on to the media GBs so that the healthy bacteria in the GBs has time to cleans or kill any pathogens. Just like in Nature.

It makes no difference once the water leaves the FT whether it is in one drain pipe or 10 drain pipes as that is all down stream. I use a 1 1/2" common drain from the FTs to the GBs which gets reduced in size at every other GB down to 1" at the far end. Each media GB is fed thru a 1" 90 which regulates the flow at each GB by rotating the 90. No ball valves to clog up with solids.

I again use a 1 1/2" common drain line from the GBs to the sump. Each 1" bell siphon drains into that 1 1/2" common drain. (sweep tees and 90's start at 1 1/2" and larger). Just make sure you "vent" each siphon so they stay isolated from the common drain or they can interfere with  each other. Plumbing 101 just like every sink, tub, clotheswasher, bathtub, etc, in your house is isolated from the drain system with vents that go up and out thru your roof. Perhaps that is the type of isolation that Nate refers to. Otherwise I disagree totally if he means separate lines for everything. That would be like having every sink, toilet, tub, etc. in your house all running to the septic thru different drain lines. Ridiculous, but then I have seen it all so nothing surprises me. Not everyone understands plumbing. KISS and keep it neat looking. Read a plumbing book for a greater understanding of "plumbing".

I will probably use the sump water bypass for now to flow thru the raft bed as that still has nitrates but is all pre-filtered by the media beds. Down the road I will build another "swirl/bio-filter" (see my photos) for the raft bed, This is why we advocate to start with media beds only as they are far simpler to run than raft beds.

Jim, thanks for your in depth response. I've heard with a large quantity of fish you can overload GBs if you don't have enough GB area. I'm thinking that's my situation with 800 fingerlings in one IBC gong to a single 12 sq. ft. GB so I interrupt the flow with a small makeshift swirl filter. BTW I do intend to add FTs and GBs his summer as the fish grow.

Just to give you some perspective Jeff we purchase no more than 50 Trout fingerlings at a time and we have 1250 gals worth of FTs. I never put more than 50 in a 300g IBC FT. (330 filled within say 8" of the top) They deserve to have a life imho. I, and many others, even place scrap pipe sections in the FTs just to give them a playground. 800? in one IBC? Really? I assume you figure 750 will die in order to give say 50 a chance to mature to harvestable size? Sorry but I just don't get it. Sounds harsh I know. Or are you planning on adding another 16 IBC 330g FTs? I debated long and hard even answering your last post but here it goes.

I'm new at this and started with 5 Tilapia. Just following "How To" info on breeding I pulled 2 females out when they showed signs of brooding. Thought I only got 300 out of the pair but after counting later realized there were 800. They're only about 1 1/2" now and I really don't know what to do with them except feed 'em. Seems a shame to trash them when I read so much about people having such a hard time breeding and keepin' them alive. My first 5 are big enough to eat but the wife named them so that's a no-no.

Oh BTW. As lucky as I am at producing fish I have no luck producing veggies.

Jeff,

As popular as Tilapia are, I'm sure if you are looking to get rid of some fingerlings you will finds some takers willing to come and get them.

Put them on craigslist I find when I have too many people buy

Jeff, that's great. Sorry, I thought you purchased that many. Freaked me out man. If you are good at breeding them it can pay for your system expenses. Kudos. I pay for mine by making siphons for folks and have done no breeding but then Trout aren't quite as easy as breeding Tilapia. Trout are hands on breeding while Tilapia are hands off breeding

Yea, not good to name them. I am about to harvest an 18" Trout that has become "almost" a pet. Been farming a long time and I will never get used to killing. I had a newborn Nubian goat die of pneumonia in my lap yesterday. Many tears shed. But we saved 3 out of 4. Victims of a sudden drop in temps overnight. Spent most of the day doctoring baby goats and more to come as well as sheep. What a nasty Winter this has been.

I'm in Michigan and best I can tell not many people here doing aquaponics. Lots of hydroponics though... go figure. I've made a couple of post in the aquaponics blogs offering the fish but no responses. That's OK. I enjoy the project.

Sorry about your goat Jim. I accidently killed a dozen fingerlings and it was depressing even with as many as I have.

BTW what are Tilapia fingerlings worth?

Another goat just born. The fun never ends around here.

No idea of price but I bet a Google search will answer that real quick. Check on Ebay as well. Ebay makes selling so easy it never ceases to amaze me. When a siphon order comes in I can have it in the mail in 5 minutes. I love it. And when I need something I can find it and have it paid for in about 1 minute thanks to Paypal.

HERE is a sample from Ebay. 5.00 each $4,000.00

Sorry but that link doesn't work so just go to Ebay and do a search. Can't test links until posted here and can't edit them if they don't.

So here's a screen dump of that ad:

Thanks for the effort Jim. Guess the next thing to do is figure out how to ship them...alive.

Well Keith next time you're in the west Detroit area and need some fish give me a shout or just drop by and say hi. I'm visiting in N.C. this week and did a tour of another guys operation yesterday. First system I've ever seen besides my own. BTW what did you pay for your fingerlings?

Keith, This was my first winter(not a good one to start) and I built a small GH and kept going. Fish production was good. Veggies grew but didn't produce. I've actually stopped trying to do any breeding. Don't have anywhere to put them but I have plans. Have 2 IBC totes for fish now. The fingerlings are in one and the 5 originals are in the other/sump tank. Fish seem to grow well in there. I have 1 3x4 GB. Just picked up 3 more IBCs for expansion this summer. I think I have a handle on how I'll expand the GH and control winter temps. Do you shut down in the winter.

That's what kept us growing down to 20 below. Winter crops did very well and the trout grew to 18". We love Winter gardening. Should have been doing for years.

Jim, I notice your wood burner exits directly out of the GH. I built a separate closet to accommodate my incinerator and found I was loosing most of the heat. I decided to loop the duct work into the GH with a fan blowing down on it. Works great! I'm going to lengthen the GH this summer and move the incinerator to one end and run the exhaust through the rafters to the other end to capitalize on all the heat. Even thinking about running water through the ducts to heat the tanks (in tubing off course). Hope the attachments work. Haven't figured out how to create a library for pics here.    IMG_20140317_085517_978.jpg   IMG_20140317_085533_622.jpg 

Hi Jeff, sorry I got no notice of your post.

My stove design is capable of a good 100K btus and that chamber on top is more complicated than it looks as it extracts most of the useable heat before it exits the GH. I can get the entire stove glowing red should I desire, so it must have room around it or PUFF goes the GH.

Before the flue gases leave the stove all the syngas (wood gas that normally goes unburned in the average stove) is burned at around 2000F in a ss chamber at the back of the lower barrel. The super heated exhaust then hits a replaceable baffle as it enters the upper chamber. Then it is directed to the front end and then up over a second baffle and toward the rear and finally into the flue and out of the GH into a metalbestos stovepipe chimney. You must have some heat left to drive the exhaust up and out unless you use a draft inducer at that end.

The heat output is controlled by a digital thermostat that drives an inlet fan that goes on and off depending on demand. The inlet fan air is preheated before it hits the syngas burner tube and the resultant burn can sound quite impressive. The next gen design (I have been designing these wood gasifiers since the mid 70's) will be even more impressive and clean burning. Hope to have that one on line for the house by Fall. I will reveal more on that in the future. Wood gasifiers are all the rage now. Ben Franklin was actually the pioneer on them and pretty much never gets any credit as everyone reinvents the wheel. Nothing new there.

If you do decide to heat the water as I do in this stove be sure to have a valve to control the flow of cold water as the resultant condensation can wreak havoc with your stove if not throttled back so as to stay warm. That very acidic condensation will eat thru most stoves unless made of ss.

As to pics, just go to your home page and load them up. Start by clicking on this button:

Jeff, I would be negligent if I did not point out that that is not a "duct" in your photo but a chimney that WILL load up with very flammable creosote and when (not if) it catches fire you are going to be in big trouble. Even that metal duct tape is meant for hot air ducts rather than chimneys. All that flammable material around it can easily catch fire. Take it from a veteran volunteer fireman who has been heating with wood for 50 yrs now. I have had a chimney fire split a new lined brick chimney right in half. 2000F in that "duct" will set everything around it on fire.The more you cool the air in the chimney the more it will form creosote. And that galvanized hot air duct pipe is also not safe for a chimney. When it is super heated in a chimney fire situation it gives off very toxic fumes. Please do your homework on heating with any kind of solid fuels and the appropriate materials that should be used. You seem convinced that you are dealing with "hot air" and take my word for it: you are not. Be safe.

Jim, Thanks for the info. I am reworking the heater this year. Your system sounds cool but complicated to a simpleton like me. Can I use the black stove pipe and be safe with proper clearance? I built a fireproof closet for the stove but it wasn't emitting enough heat to have been a problem probably because it's an incinerator and not a stove and has a double wall.

Black pipe is the right one. It comes in various gauges but the thicker the longer lasting.

I came upon an old Trout raising book and thought this quote to be of interest. Source at the end.

"I think it is safe to say that sluggish flat water at 70 is dangerous,
if not fatal, to trout ; while they will live in vigorous
rapid water which occasionally runs to 80. I have
found 85 to be fatal to them in all kinds of water."
Source:
JAMES R. OSGOOD AND COMPANY, LATE TICKNOR & FIELDS, AND FIELDS, OSGOOD, & Co.1873

Good stuff. Keep your Trout water rolling!

Hello All

Has anyone an easy way to get goldfish out of a Tote?

Hi Steve. I gave a detailed answer at your new topic above.