Duck Weed

[Justin]

Alright so I went on a wild goose chase looking for some duck weed today! I started of at the park next to Renfree Field but that was all dried up. Then I went down to the River right under Sunrise and asked around the fishermen. One guy said he knew where I could get some weed but it wasn't duck weed so I passed on that. Then I went down to the Folsom exit off 50 where I remember seeing kayakers paddling through green water last time we went to Prairie city ohv. It was still green but it turned out to be that nasy looking clumpy type of algea that reminds me of the gunk I used to see flowing through the storm drains in L.A.  I even drove across town to Aquaworkz but the best they could do was tell me to go check some creeks or streams... So I wrote all that to ask, WHO'S GOT THE DUCKWEED? WHERE'S IT AT?

My fingerlings are growing fast btw- that's why I want to get this stuff now, they are little eating machines! The longest stretch they go without food is overnight while I'm asleep and by the time I go feed them in the morning they've got all the sand looking like it rained in there- all pitted from the fish pecking through the sand in search of food. I've watched them do it, it looks like it would hurt the way they shove their heads down into the sand and then spit out a mouthful of grit. then they do it again, and again. they're all growing fast except one- my son named it "spikey" I have no idea why but yeah that one is tiny and even though I see it eating little bits it just doesn't seem to be growing much at all.

alright well, if anybody knows where I can get some duckweed, do me a favor and let me know.

thanks,

Jp

[Paul Trudeau]

Hi Justin,

I bought some at Capital Aquarium before they closed down.  I think O Street Aquarium or other stores might have it as well.  But my main source for duckweed stater stock has been a rain water catchment basin in the development where I live.  Just checked - there's plenty there (as usual).  One precaution:  the mosquito abatement district treats that basin with something against mosquitos.  Probably worth checking out what that is but I haven't had any problems in the past using duckweed from there. 

You (and anyone else) are free to come by any time and we could scoop you out a nice batch.

[Susie Gehri]

Thanks JP for the great laugh.  I can just see you going to these places and the fishermen telling you that!!  We finally have our system "cycling"....I jsut can't get the pH to come down!!  It started at 8.8.....is now around 8.4.  I keep adding ammonia too and its not showing either!!  So my point is, we do want to do duck week also.  Right now we're focused on cycling tho. Any suggestions gladly taken on the cycling issues.  (My home well water tested at 7.4, and we used red lava rock).

[Justin]

Problem solved, thanks Paul and you're welcome Susie- hope you get that pH issue under control! I'm sure you will, just make sure to let us know what you learn from sorting it all out. 

As far as the duckweed, I'm going to do take your advice Paul and do what I should have done in the first place- call around. I'll try to figure out what district is using first but I can only handle being on hold,  listening to recorded messages, and/or getting transferred around for so long before I feel like finding some weed and going fishing <kidding but yeah if I can find out what they're using I'll let you know. thanks again.

[Justin]

Ok, well I only got transferred three times, sat on hold for about 5 minutes listening to a recording before getting disconnected and somebody actually picked up on the second call so that was relatively painless! I did manage to reach some very helpful people though so that was nice. Still not 100% sure about what's going into the water, I was told it was BTI or methoprene and that they normally do not treat water with fish in it because if the water quality is good enough for fish then they don't typically need to treat with anything other than fish to regulate the mosquito's... or something like that. The closest I could get to a difinitive answer as to whether there would be any harmful effects on fish from BTI or methoprene was, "there shouldn't be." It certainly doesn't fill me with the confidence to harvest but I do appreciate the honesty, right? So next step is to google BTI and methoprene.

BTI: According to wikipedia which, perhaps sadly, happens to be my main source of quick and easy information states, "Bti produces toxins which are effective in killing various species of mosquitoes, fungus gnats, and blackflies, while having almost no effect on other organisms". sounds good, alright, cool.

Methoprene: According to information from Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and National Pesticide Information Center (NPIC), "methoprene does not pose unreasonable risks to human health when used according to label directions and methoprene does not pose unreasonable risks to wildlife or the environment when used according to label directions.  Toxicity to birds, fish, and freshwater invertebrates is low, and it is nontoxic to bees."

the obvious question for me is how do they determine what is or is not a reasonable risk to humans, wildlife and/or the environment? was that done by a lab or a lobbyist, right? I don't know...

What they did tell me without any hesitation was that they would NOT introduce duckweed into any body of water. I was told that people try to get RID of duckweed, especially in pond systems because "it just takes over." So, for whatever it's worth, that's what I learned today and now I've got to get to work. Chat later!

[Paul Trudeau]

Nice work Justin!  Seems to me that if there were significant negatives of any kind from BTI and/or methoprene, then the question would be how much those are taken up by the duckweed living in that water, and in turn how much those would have an effect on subsequent generations of duckweed you grow in your tank and/or the other organisms in your system.  I sure don't know, but it seems reasonable to guess that the risks are pretty low and might get lower over time as you grow your own.

 

There would also be risks in using duckweed purchased from an aquarium store:  could have stowaway snails or who knows what else. 

 

Maybe with either source, it might help to rinse the duckweed before introducing into your system (or maybe that wouldn't help at all!).  I'd try to minimize the amount of source water transferred with the duckweed.  If you want to be real strict about it, you could quarantine the duckweed for a month or so:  grow it separately from the rest of your system to see if any nasties come along with it.

Jp said:

Ok, well I only got transferred three times, sat on hold for about 5 minutes listening to a recording before getting disconnected and somebody actually picked up on the second call so that was relatively painless! I did manage to reach some very helpful people though so that was nice. Still not 100% sure about what's going into the water, I was told it was BTI or methoprene and that they normally do not treat water with fish in it because if the water quality is good enough for fish then they don't typically need to treat with anything other than fish to regulate the mosquito's... or something like that. The closest I could get to a difinitive answer as to whether there would be any harmful effects on fish from BTI or methoprene was, "there shouldn't be." It certainly doesn't fill me with the confidence to harvest but I do appreciate the honesty, right? So next step is to google BTI and methoprene.

BTI: According to wikipedia which, perhaps sadly, happens to be my main source of quick and easy information states, "Bti produces toxins which are effective in killing various species of mosquitoes, fungus gnats, and blackflies, while having almost no effect on other organisms". sounds good, alright, cool.

Methoprene: According to information from Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and National Pesticide Information Center (NPIC), "methoprene does not pose unreasonable risks to human health when used according to label directions and methoprene does not pose unreasonable risks to wildlife or the environment when used according to label directions.  Toxicity to birds, fish, and freshwater invertebrates is low, and it is nontoxic to bees."

the obvious question for me is how do they determine what is or is not a reasonable risk to humans, wildlife and/or the environment? was that done by a lab or a lobbyist, right? I don't know...

What they did tell me without any hesitation was that they would NOT introduce duckweed into any body of water. I was told that people try to get RID of duckweed, especially in pond systems because "it just takes over." So, for whatever it's worth, that's what I learned today and now I've got to get to work. Chat later!

[Janet Little]

I got some at the creek in Sloughhouse behind the now closed restaurant just off the road. (Sorry can't remember the name). I would offer some of mine but I seem to be having trouble growing it. My water is mucky and doesn't seem to have the nutrients needed to keep it going. Any tip would be appreciated.

[Jon Parr]

JP, I can mail you some if you don't find any closer. Probably $10 for a handful of DW, bag, box, and priority mail. BT is a bacteria, and harmless to AP and humans, and is the active ingredient in Mosquito Dunks. Not sure about the other product.
Duckweed is invasive for sure, but it is California native, so don't stress too much about moving it around. A lot of animals eat it, including chickens, ducks, fish and people too. I keep some on all my tanks. If it is suddenly diminished or gone, then I know they were hungry and I can feed them more.
Paul, snails may not be bad for AP. I've read that they can carry disease and parasites. Maybe so, but snails are natural members of all aquatic ecosystems. I have snails in most of my tanks. They work over detritus and algae and self-regulate population.
Janet, try a little water movement like an airstone or a small pump. My best yielding DW tank has been an 8' wading pool with a small pump moving water through 10 gallons of media, and a slight circular current. There are fish in it, getting fed every day, and no other plants pulling nutrients. I remove 1/3-1/2 of surface DW every day for months.

[Justin]

The reasoning side of my brain is right there with you Paul but now that I've got words like methoprene, toxins and unreasonable risks floating around the other side it's game over for me. I tend to get hung up and over analyze a lot of times and I guess this is just one of them. Anyhow I found some at the O st. aquarium store just like you said. It might be worse but nobody told me so I'm ok with that. Although I am just about certain is was only in the tank because it piggy backed it's way in with one of the aquatic plants but after driving all over town yesterday- I don't even care! $1.08 for some stuff people somewhere are trying to get rid of- SURE! Why not, right? I mean, let's get real here, I bought fish effluence not too long ago, you know? I mean, once you've paid for fish poop... it's pretty much been established you'll pay for anything. In fact, by the time I found that darned duck weed, a buck o eight actually seemed like a pretty good deal to me! 

I might even go back!

No, if I can't get it to grow I'll probably burn up a few gallons of fuel getting out to Sloughhouse though. Are we talking about the old Sloughhouse inn restaurant/bar on 16 just before the Davis Ranch? I'd like to get over there for some fresh fruits and veggies anyway. When is the corn ready? I always forget. As far as the water- yeah I don't know but all they really had in the fish store was a real small basic water pump and one of those inexpensive little sponge filters. The mosquito control guys I spoke with this morning made it sound like the stuff would climb out a start taking over small towns if you didn't watch it so... I threw mine in a plastic tub with a small water pump/filter and I'm keeping my eye on it with the lid and some duct tape handy!

Oh Just had to edit, almost missed Jon's post! thanks Jon, always appreciate your posts. Good info.

 :)

[Janet Little]

Yes thats the one, it is a slippery walk down but it is right behind it.

[Rochelle Hopkins]

Enjoyed all the posts. I obtained some duckweed some months ago. It was out of a canal in north Sacramento. There are alot of levees around. 

I put in goldfish with it to test it out. The goldfish ate it down to almost nothing! but it grows pretty fast. I am attaching pic. This is a sterilite tub I spray painted black on outside to keep the algae from taking over. I might have to put a couple of small fish in there so there is some nutrients to keep it going.  I'm sorry about picture in the middle don't know how that happened. Operator error I guess :>

[loki]

i dont know if it is still needed but their is duck weed around mather afb. their is some at mather lake and some at the edges of the creek that runs behind where i live. i dont think their are globs of it but their is some. mather lake is a pay to park facility the creek on the other hand is free.

[Justin]

noted- thanks for all the info! anybody want to see what one dollar and eight cents worth of duck weed looks like? hold on brb...