A Community and Forum For Aquaponic Gardeners

Question about HPS fixtures

Does anyone know if this type of fixture needs a ballast, and would they have a mogul, or medium base? I can't tell by the tag, but can pick them up for $40.00 ea.

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Permalink Reply by Matt T. on January 30, 2013 at 3:04pm

I have yet to purchase any bulbs. There is a BHB in the cat #, and lamp types are M59 or H33. I'll open it up and take a pic to post. The bulbs are huge, and have what appears to be a large socket. I do grow mostly lettuce and greens now under a 250 watt MH fixture, but will try cuc's and tomatoes when my GB ages a bit longer, so I'll be needing an HPS for those.

Jon. Couldn't I line my reflectors with tin foil, like I did my closet back in the high school days? Lol. Wether I use HPS or MH I am excited about being able to use my electric meter on the side of the house to slice ham!! Maybe even run a belt to a generator in order to offset some of the costs? Kidding. I had to throw in a little sarcasm. Can't be half as bad as my cable bill........

Permalink Reply by Jon Parr on January 30, 2013 at 6:00pm

Sure, foil will work, though surprisingly not as good as white paint. Aluminum tends to reflect heat, and titanium reflects more light. Do both and check with your light meter (and a thermometer).

Once you're done slicing ham, you could use that spinning meter to power a fan to cool your lights, eh?

Permalink Reply by Matt T. on February 19, 2013 at 9:22pm

I picked up some acrylic artist white titanium paint. I'm going to try and thin it with an extender to see if I can airbrush it on, after primer coat for plastics. Its only 9 degrees out in the garage, and spraying with the torpedo heater running might not be my best option. I'll figure something out.

Jon Parr said:

Thanks Matt, and you're right about the shipping. I have since found a supplier in Oregon that is much cheaper, and close enough I can make the drive to pick it up.

Now, did you say white coating on your bulbs? You, sir, do not have HPS fixture! Those are MH, as in Metal Halide. I'm glad I caught that, hopefully before you buy bulbs. I checked the lamp numbers on the ballast in the picture, and sure enough, MH. So, do not buy HPS bulbs, or CMH bulbs, they won't work (at least not for any length of time). The good news is that MH bulbs produce great light, but they are not quite as efficient or long lasting as HPS or CMH. And, BTW, they are a fine value. Any HID, including MH, are way better than any fluorescents, IMO.

For cheap reflectors, try painting one of the plastic ones with a suitable primer, then a flat white paint with as much titanium oxide added as you can get. "Artists white" paint is high in titanium. If the reflector pattern is good (even spread, no hot-spots), then paint them all and you're golden (actually more bluish, technically )

Permalink Reply by Matt T. on February 23, 2013 at 3:33pm

Jon, Here is a picture of the insides of my MH fixtures. I hope its not to busy?

Jon Parr said:

BTW, if the ballasts used are universal (most are), then you can rewire these MH into HPS by adding an igniter (about $15 each) to the loop. It's fairly easy, just open one up and post a picture of the ballast terminals. We can walk you through it. Personally, I like CMH bulbs the best, which require the igniter, and IMO it is worth it to rewire these things. My local hydro stores and commercial lighting stores have igniters and capacitors on the shelf (of course I do live in Weedville).

Permalink Reply by Vlad Jovanovic on February 23, 2013 at 5:44pm

Hey Matt, you really don't need HPS bulbs for tomatoes, cukes, eggplant, peppers...none of those plants exhibit photoperiodic traits...so red spectrum light is hardly a necessity. Certainly wont hurt though if you want a 'fun' ballast conversion project, or want to grow medicinal marijuana...or want the extra bit of efficiency that HPS would offer.

The M59 designation is for 400Watt Metal Halide, the H33 designates that the ballast could be used with a 400Watt Mercury Vapour light. So you can't use it to power an HPS bulb (without at least adding an ignitor...and/or a switch/relay if you want to create a switchable balast. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that you might need another capacitor and a diode as well for switching between MH and HPS, but I could be wrong. Jon probably knows more).

Again, don't think that you will need an HPS light source anyways to get toms or cukes to flower and fruit, because you don't.

Your picture just shows a capacitor, its resistor, and an auto transformer. They are likely wired in series. I think Americans call this set-up a 'constant wattage auto-transformer' circuit. I can't tell from the picture, but you probably have a 24 micro Fd-400 volt capacitor there...probably oil filled, hence the resistor (1/4Watt or maybe if the company was generous, 1/2Watt)...I'm just kinda guessing here, so you can take a better pic or take a look.

Jon, couldn't Matt just buy a conversion bulb if he doesn't want to do the switchable mod? (Yeah, yeah I know...where's the fun in that...no fire extinguisher needed and all...but don't they make such bulbs in the US, or are they just a waste of money high priced weed/marketing type item)?

Permalink Reply by Jon Parr on February 23, 2013 at 11:28pm

Yes you can use conversion bulbs, but they are pricey. MH is fine to use, so it's a personal choice to want to rewire for HPS/CMH. If the ballast were easily reconfigured, then I say go ahead. But the ballast in the pic appears to have only wires coming from the ballast, and not the multitap contacts that the universal ones have. I'll take a pic of one of mine.

This is clipped from a grow site
"Coming out of the Igniter there should be 3 wires, labeled X1LAMP, X2COM and X3 or something similar. If these are not labeled as such or similar, STOP! Your light is non-standard and unless you are a certified Electrician, you should consult one before continuing.

If you trace the X1 and X2 wires back, you will see X1 goes to a 3-wire connection between the Transformer and the Light Socket, and the X2 leads to a 3-wire connection also going between the Transformer and the Light Socket. These are the two leads you want to disconnect.

There are two ways to do this:

1st way: you can make it a semi-permanent conversion from HPS to MH, if you want to switch back, you have to open up your ballast again and reconnect the X1 and X2 leads.

2nd way: install a dual pole/single throw switch in X1 and X2, and you now have an on demand, switchable ballast.

Option 1:
1.Unplug the light! I recommend it having been unplugged for several hours before working on it.
2.Disconnect the X1 and X2 wires from the 3-wire connection spots by untwisting the wire nuts.
3.Retwist the wires back together, and re-cap with the wire nut as you do this.
4.Place one (1) new wire nut on the X1 lead coming out of the igniter to cap it so it does not short. Do the same with the X2 lead coming out of the igniter.

You’re done - your ballast will now run a same wattage MH bulb. To change back, reconnect the X1 and X2 leads coming out of the igniter to the respective X1 and X2 leads you disconnected them from."

Permalink Reply by Matt T. on February 24, 2013 at 8:52am

Yikes! Sounds somewhat complex, yet doable. I may mess with it in the future, but if I can get by with MH for cuc's and tomatoes, for now I think I'll try it. Vlad. You were right on with those #'s 24v fd, 400 VAC 50/60Hz. Not sure on the wattage? Says +30, -30%. Whatever thats attributed to? Only two wires off of the capacitor. Seeing I just had a heart attach a week ago Thursday, I think I'll leave the sparking stuff alone for now!! I'm going to leave the red meat alone, and start eating more of what I grow. Thanks again you two. I think you both are the most helpfull to me on this site. If I lived further west I would attend one of those lectures.

I am thinking about doing this AP stuff on a bigger scale. The closest AP training I can get is through Nelson & Pade, which is in my home state of Wisconsin. I did take a one day class with Will Allen's "Growing Power" but so condensed. I would rather take the Green Acres course above any of them though. I hope this isn't concidered spam, mentioning that OTHER class?

Permalink Reply by Vlad Jovanovic on February 24, 2013 at 9:58am

The 30% up or down is probably just the tolerance of the capacitor. (These things usually aren't very precise at all, and the tolerance can double after a period of time...usage/storage). I've only ever seen them with 2 terminals (+ and -)...It's the ignitors that have three...Yeah, if your not comfortable...leave it alone. They can be kinda "dangerous" to work with... (sorta...you should always take steps to discharge any capacitors you're working around. They are basically made to store electrical energy, and can really put a damper on your day if you don't take precautions to discharge all those stored electrons into something other than your body). Anywho's...

Talk to someone (preferably more than one person) who went through whatever training course(s) you want to attend, as I'm sure content and style will vary wildly. Say, N and P might be a good course to take if you plan on a strict UVI style system. Rafts only, clarifiers, net tanks, swirl filters, de-gassing tanks, super high stocking densities etc..

Will Alan's method (great guy, I got to meet him the other week...man-o-man, I had no idea just how many different projects that man was involved in, sheesh...) is pretty much compost based. Even the AP part. It's also designed to give a whole lot of kids a whole lot of work to do...Super labor intensive. Which is an absolutely great and wonderful system for community building, but pretty sucky if you want/have to run it with just yourself and a soul-mate (or have to pay people for all that labor). See what I'm saying?

Talk to folks, and decide where to best spend your money. It may well be worth it, to travel to Florida, Colorado, or California for some course work/training, depending on what type of system you hope to build and run...Don't decide based on geography...

Permalink Reply by Jon Parr on February 24, 2013 at 10:49am

Ditto what Vlad said. In high school we used to leave charged capacitors in conspicuous places with a sticky note saying "do not touch". Great fun.

Green Acres puts on a great class, I've been to it. I haven't been to N and P, though I've had students of mine who have. I've been to two other major classes that were disappointing. I think Vlad and I put on a very solid training, and the next ones will be stellar (locations to be announced soon)

Permalink Reply by Matt T. on February 24, 2013 at 9:42pm

Vlad. What does UVI stand for? I'm still a newbie, so please bear with me. Yes. Wills classes were labor intensive. I actually paid money to go there and work, at least for the composting class. The AP class was interesting, but not sure I'd want all those pathogens that may be present in the compost, in such close contact with the fish. It works for him however, and he does have a lot going on there. Hopefully Jon and yourself will be coming to a nieghborhood near me in the future.

Permalink Reply by Vlad Jovanovic on February 26, 2013 at 12:58pm

Ah...sorry. UVI stands for the University of the Virgin Islands...It's the model upon which Nelson and Pade's (and many other) system(s) are based on.