Water questions

[Benjamin]

I bought a test kit and my water showed medium ammonia and I have trates of nitrite and nitrate. But I have a 7.2 ph but I have a high alkaline and medium general hardness could this be the reason my fish are dieing? I serch the internet and surfed sites but nobody seems to mention much about it I think my tank is still cycling I used media from a established fish tank and I thought I did it correctly but the test strip reads it's still in the process of cycling so in a sense I answer my own question as to why my fish are dieing but what is the meaning in the system recycleing and the high reading of alkaline and general hardness and dose is affect my ap system and fish?

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Benjamin, my understanding is that the main affect of alkalinity is on your ability to adjust pH. High alkalinity = tough to move pH. That is coming from a non-scientist, obviously ;-) so hopefully some of our science folks can jump in.

In order to try and help you out here we are going to need ppm numbers. What are you actual levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? Your pH is not alarming. What type of fish (I think you were using goldfish in a small tank, if I recall). The more detail the better.

[Kobus Jooste]

To add to what5 Sylvia has stated - having the results showing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate suggests that you are still cycling.  If the fish is new, they are likely still stressed and then potentiall yvery succeptible to undesireable water quality.  With the more alkaline water conditions, you will also have more un-iodized ammonia (your test kit will read total ammonia, while uniodized is far more toxic than ionized) together with the nitrite.  Without an idea of the type of fish, the water temperature (very important to know, as it also influences chemistry) or other potential problems, I would offer the observation that you likely added the fish too soon, or that your biological filter is not large enough / functioning properly.  How old is the system?

[TCLynx]

Test strips are not always the most accurate.  They may seem easy to use but they don't give the most reliable readings.

 

Ammonia can be very toxic to fish.  I don't know what "medium" ammonia means?  My test kit reads in ppm and with fish in a system I usually reduce/stop feed and start to worry if the ammonia is much more than 0.25-0.50 and if it gets up to 1 ppm with fish in the system I'm doing water changes.

 

Same with Nitrite but you can mitigate nitrite toxicity a bit by adding 1 ppt of salt to the system.  Nitrite is toxic to fish the way Carbon Monoxide is toxic to humans.

 

Nitrates are what you get to feed the plants.

 

Now if you used all the media from a comparably sized already cycled system then you might expect there to be very little in the way of cycle up.  However just a little media from the aquarium dropped into your new fish tank isn't going to suddenly cycle up the media beds and if the media was allowed to dry out or starve before being put into the new set up then it might do very little at all.  Filter squeezing from a good cycled aquarium into the media bed of an aquaponics system can be of some use but even with all the tricks, cycling up still takes time.  Three weeks with all the tricks and perfect conditions and water for fishless cycling and normally more like 6 weeks with good conditions with fish in the system (because you have to watch the levels closely and reduce feed or do water changes to keep the fish alive so that slows the bacteria colonization.)

[Benjamin]

I see well in that case I think I must have misunderstood how the cycling from another tank works oops and I had used rock from another tank and the filter and used it in the system I guess the ppm would read off like this ph.. shot way up overnight 8.4 alkalinity (kh) also up overnight ppm 300 plus its blue and my chart only shows to dark green. Gh ppm 300 nitrite 3.0 and nitrate 10

[Benjamin]

And its a little system flood and drain 10g ft and a 12x24x12 with hydroton for media

[TCLynx]

so you are saying?

pH=8.4

Kh=300 ppm

Gh=300 ppm

ammonia=????????

nitrite=3 ppm

nitrate=10ppm

 

How many fish are we talking?

 

Your pH is high (warning if you test pH right out of the tap, it's giving you a false low reading because of dissolved CO2 in the water and after bubbling over night will probably read high)  might be worth getting some pH down to at least get it below 8 or even down to 7.6 then let the cycling naturally take over using up the buffers (the hardness) to bring it down a bit more over time.  Be careful and only move the pH a tiny bit each day (like .1-.2 per day)  Better yet, get a bucket or barrel where you can adjust the pH and let the water sit and bubble for a day or so before doing water changes.

 

Your nitrite being 3 is high and could well be killing fish.  If you consider that a trace then I hate to think what medium ammonia means especially at your high pH and I'm gonna guess that the ammonia spike is what is killing the fish.

 

lots of hardness and alkalinity are not really a problem in themselves but they could make it hard to get through the initial cycle up with fish since they make it hard to adjust the pH.  (you add acid then the hardness counters it and the pH doesn't really stay down very well until you use up some of that hardness so to speak.)

 

How many fish you still have in there?  If the fish don't make it, I would recommend finishing up the cycling fishlessly since you won't have to worry about the pH and ammonia killing fish that way and once the system kinda settles in a bit and the pH comes down some naturally then you can re-introduce fish once the ammonia can be dosed to between 1-2 ppm and 24 hours later both the ammonia and nitrite are back to 0. 

[Benjamin]

Its only two small goldfish they survived the rest of a few who have died and when I bought my test strip it sais ammonia on the box but I read it wrong it dose not test ammonia unfortunately I live in a rural area and what is available localy is outrageous in price so it will be a short bit before I buy another test kit however I have a simple question if the fish live can I transfer them out to a separate tank and just add ammonia untill it cycles. And will I screw up my media bed and kill my plants?

[TCLynx]

you could transfer them to another tank but you will want to make sure it has filtration in order to keep them alive.

 

for a good test kit, Sylvia sells them and for a good price last time I checked too.

http://www.theaquaponicstore.com/API-Freshwater-Aquarium-Test-Kit-p...

[Benjamin]

Thank you for helping me understand a little more on water I will continue to cycle but with just strait ammonia the fish will be moved to a friends tank for now do I still have to consider ph untill it cycles and will it balance out as the plants grow while the tank cycles? Or should I do a percentage of water change