System Update (Greenhouse & Aquabundance system)

[Jim Logios]

Greetings everyone. I purchased a system from Sylvia many months ago, but had to do some prep work before going ahead...that prep work being, getting a greenhouse up. Well, that's finally done, and this past week, I assembled the whole thing, filled it with water, and am now in the process of cycling it.

Yesterday was day one. The setup is complete and operational. The unit is in the greenhouse.

On day one, I added the dry mix included in the cycle kit.

On day two (today), I first tested the ph (8.2) and the ammonia levels (8ppm). Immediately after this, I added 5ml (2 tsp) of ammonia from the cycle kit. I did not check ammonia levels after this, but it seems to me that I was already starting out with 8ppm of ammonia, that adding ammonia would boost the levels even higher… I assume that as nitrites and nitrates climb, ammonia will go down? At what levels should I be concerned with if ammonia keeps rising?

2. I was watching one of Murray's videos, and the question I have is… Is the ideal way (with a flood and drain system such as Sylvia's) is to fill the grow bed up to about an inch under the top layer so as not to expose the top layer to water… thereby inhibiting algae? Then if so, and I had a better timer, would it be better to simply allow the water to reach the desired level, and then to have the timer switch to off? Or, is it better to allow the water to flood the bed for a full 15 minutes?

Thanks! and I'm sure i'll have many more questions.

Jim

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Well, my guess is that your water is probably very hard and that is why it is challenging to move your pH.  I'm not sure what the solution is besides just keeping at it slowly but surely as you have been.  Maybe someone else has a better idea...

[Kobus Jooste]

Running the risk of not putting a reply in enough scientific detail and getting laughed at by someone in the water chemistry field, you should likely have a look at your water's composition to determine what the cause of the high pH is.  As Sylvia stated, you are doing the right thing to try and adjust the pH slowly, but if the water has a high amount of dissolved chemicals in it that can neutralize the pH down, you will not see a drop in overall pH untill all these have reacted with the pH down.  It took me around 2 months to move my pH from around 6.4 to 7 in a rain water system.

[Harold Sukhbir]

Hi All,

It's still too early to be sure there is indeed a water PH problem. Have a little patience, let some more time pass, then you know. Plants will grow at this reading albeit not as profusely but they will grow. 

[Jim Logios]

I just recently installed a water softener in my house. The well water I used to fill the tank with bypassed the softener.

I did a water hardness test with the strips supplied, and the hardness was quite low.  However, I have been plagued with sediment since I moved into this house over 10 years ago, and still have the issue. The water softener does a good job of filtering out the sediment, but by bypassing it, some of that sediment got into the fish tank. It's mostly black, with silver specs in it.  I wonder if that sediment is keeping the ph high?  Do water testing facilities analyze sediment for content?

[Jim Logios]

I think I'm making some real progress here.  My ammonia levels were at .25ppm yesterday, so I added 6ml. Today, they were almost at 0. I just added 10ml more of ammonia.  Hopefully, it will be at zero tomorrow.  My nitrites have stayed at 5ppm for several days, no budging.  However, my nitrate levels went from 5ppm to over 80ppm overnight.  My concern is the ph which is now at about 8.2 - 8.4.

 

Do the levels seem to suggest I am close to being cycled?

 

Thanks!

 

Jim Logios said:

I just recently installed a water softener in my house. The well water I used to fill the tank with bypassed the softener.

I did a water hardness test with the strips supplied, and the hardness was quite low.  However, I have been plagued with sediment since I moved into this house over 10 years ago, and still have the issue. The water softener does a good job of filtering out the sediment, but by bypassing it, some of that sediment got into the fish tank. It's mostly black, with silver specs in it.  I wonder if that sediment is keeping the ph high?  Do water testing facilities analyze sediment for content?

[TCLynx]

You are making progress.  If you want to see how far along you are, don't dose again until you not only see the ammonia drop to 0 but wait till the nitrite also drops down below 1 and see how long that takes, then dose again and see how long it takes.  I expect you are only a few doses away from being able to dose ammonia up over 1 ppm and then have both ammonia and nitrite down to 0 within 24 hours.

 

As to the pH.  What time a day do you test your pH?  Try testing it at dawn and see if it is lower then, if so it could be due to algae.

[Harold Sukhbir]

Hi Jim,

When you've fully cycled(which looks like very soon), and the bacteria becomes established in the system, you can slowly lower the PH (by then if it is indeed a water scource problem) by using replacement water from another scource.This way you'll know where the problem lies.

[Sylvia Bernstein]

TC, I question stopping dosing with ammonia entirely.  Not sure what that accomplishes and seems to me if you stop feeding the nitrosomonas bacteria you could put the new colony in jeopardy.  Personally I'd keep adding it daily until a substitute ammonia provider is added...i.e. the fish.

[TCLynx]

I like to make sure that both the ammonia and nitrite can reach 0 before I add the fish.  And if the nitrite is still way high, I was always told to ease off on the ammonia for a bit till the nitrite comes down seeing as high ammonia will inhibit the bacteria that work on the nitrite.  And my way of telling if the system is cycled is to dose to at least 1 ppm of ammonia and then if both ammonia and nitrite are 0, 24 hours later then you know you are cycled.  I've never actually done a cycle up where I dose 1 ppm of ammonia every single day, I usually wait at least till ammonia gets to 0 before I dose again and usually let the nitrite fall a bit too but this could draw the cycling process out a little bit more.

 

hay Sylvia, are the instructions for you cycle up kit posted anywhere, just so I have an idea of how your instructions say to go about it.  The methods I learned work well but I'm not cycling up with a sterile ammonia source.

[Harold Sukhbir]

Hi All,

I cycled by keeping Ammonia levels to 3-5 ppm continuously, even after Nitrite peaked and zeroed, i still kept it here. If you get up to 6-8ppm ammonia you can start to inhibit bacteria and eventually they die off. If you keep it between the 3-5 you're OK. I kept dosing for 1 whole week even after cycling and always zeroed between the 12-24 hour period(proof of a large colony). To me the higher you dose with ammonia between 1-5ppm the stronger and more populated the bacterial colonies will become.

[Kobus Jooste]

On the ammonia side, I must add that I always work on the information from bio-filter management, where a constant trickle of ammonia is needed to keep nitrification going.  A couple of days of no ammonia may not matter, but in the end, not adding it will resulrt in a shrinking of the population of bacteria responsible for nitrite production.  I am also not too familiar with literature stating that high levels of ammonia inhibit nitrite formation - just that a spike in the level of ammonia will result in a response in the development of bacteria able to nitrify it.  TC Lynx - do you have some more info on how high ammonia can damage the nitrification process as it is an interesting concept to me.  I am assuming theat the high levels referred to by you are artificially high, above what can typically be achieved through the operation of an aquarium or aquaculture facility?

[Harold Sukhbir]

Hi Kobus,

I remember reading about the process of inhibiting bacteria growth with too high ammonia. I can't find the exact paper right now but this article mentions it   http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm