System design

[Sylvia Bernstein]

What are your thoughts on system design?  Media vs raft.  Deep media beds vs shallow.  Siphons vs timers.  Tell us your thoughts and let's get the conversation rolling

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Darryl, besides what TC said the Member Map in the header tabs also gives a different perspective on where people are generally from. You can zoom in and see if there is anyone near you....who has put their pin on the map.

[Darryl Hinson]

I'm confused....that happens a lot lately....
Does a rule of thumb exist that says the Volume of your FT should be equal to the Volume of your GB?
OR
Is it the Volume of your FT needs to be equal to you GB dimension in SQUARE FT.
OR
Is it more important to balance the MASS of the fish to the Volume of GB?
I know that the ultimate answer, of course, is to test the water but....just looking for a place to start.

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Darryl, the rule of thumb for media based systems that I find very useful is the first one - you want to be at a 1:1 up to a 1:2 ratio of fish tank to grow bed. This is assuming that you are stocking at a density of approximately 1 lb of fish to 5 gallons of water. I learned all this from Murray Hallam, and it has worked like a dream for me. My systems are rock solid, require almost no maintenance (occasional cleaning of pipes and pumps) and my plants grow like crazy.

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Kobus, while the need for a place for "Golden Ratios" is evident, I'm not sure that a discussion topic is the best way to do it because the original content, or assertion about the ratios, would probably get lost eventually in the discussion steam (this one, for example, is now 11 pages long). I'll PM some thoughts to you.

[Darryl Hinson]

Could we start a glossary page for all the anacronysims....
NFT
DWC
CHIST PIFT...or whatever
there are a few more....
I think I'd get more out of these blog discussions if I could have a glossary of sorts....
just an idea that would help me....

[Darryl Hinson]

I understand the value of growing fish along with vegrtables ....but what if I'm allergic to fish....I may want to eliminate the fish from the system....from what I can glean so far, the fish produce ammonia ....why couldnt I just add ammonia manually and do away with the fish....pure ammonia is pretty cheap and I DO have a test kit.....
So then I'm into the hydroponic arena....but I've read that hydroponics have their problems with having to do a water change out....so the fish must produce more than just ammonia....??

[RupertofOZ]

They change out water in hydroponics as the nutrient solution becomes spent, or begins precipitating out due to temperature...

You could just run your media based AP system on ammonia alone... but I'd suspect it would be cheaper to run fish...

Also the fish feed contains a balance of trace elements, which in due course are provided to the plants... partly by conversion of wastes by the worms in our grow beds...

Feeding your system pure ammonia may very well kill your worm colony... or your plants could, even with the right pH, become deficient in some trace elements...



Darryl Hinson said:

I understand the value of growing fish along with vegrtables ....but what if I'm allergic to fish....I may want to eliminate the fish from the system....from what I can glean so far, the fish produce ammonia ....why couldnt I just add ammonia manually and do away with the fish....pure ammonia is pretty cheap and I DO have a test kit.....
So then I'm into the hydroponic arena....but I've read that hydroponics have their problems with having to do a water change out....so the fish must produce more than just ammonia....??

[Murray Hallam]

RupertofOZ said:

They change out water in hydroponics as the nutrient solution becomes spent, or begins precipitating out due to temperature...

You could just run your media based AP system on ammonia alone... but I'd suspect it would be cheaper to run fish...

Also the fish feed contains a balance of trace elements, which in due course are provided to the plants... partly by conversion of wastes by the worms in our grow beds...

Feeding your system pure ammonia may very well kill your worm colony... or your plants could, even with the right pH, become deficient in some trace elements...



Darryl Hinson said:

I understand the value of growing fish along with vegrtables ....but what if I'm allergic to fish....I may want to eliminate the fish from the system....from what I can glean so far, the fish produce ammonia ....why couldnt I just add ammonia manually and do away with the fish....pure ammonia is pretty cheap and I DO have a test kit.....
So then I'm into the hydroponic arena....but I've read that hydroponics have their problems with having to do a water change out....so the fish must produce more than just ammonia....??

[Manfred Wille]

Hello Sylvia my design is as symple as posible syphon a standpipe and a 65mm pipe wis a oval hol 50mm vroom the button
I dont drain mai groingbeds completey. The gravel is vrom 20 mm 50mm in seise I made the beds aut o75mm thick hardwood and pondliner the beds are 30 cm deep.two 5000l tanks the tanks drain vrom the bottom into a smaler tank where there is the pump.
the pump got a floting switch and a timer.the sylverperch are not cannibalistic the marry codd are. ca. 100 marrys got a 5000l tank
and the sylver and the catfish ca 550 -600 shearing the other tank that is ca 1fish per 8liter of water the fish are between
6 montes an 18montes old. and i got no problems . more later manfred

[Sylvia Bernstein]

sounds like you have a well functioning system, Manfred. Congratulations. We'd love to see pictures when you have some time to post them.


Manfred Wille said:

Hello Sylvia my design is as symple as posible syphon a standpipe and a 65mm pipe wis a oval hol 50mm vroom the button
I dont drain mai groingbeds completey. The gravel is vrom 20 mm 50mm in seise I made the beds aut o75mm thick hardwood and pondliner the beds are 30 cm deep.two 5000l tanks the tanks drain vrom the bottom into a smaler tank where there is the pump.
the pump got a floting switch and a timer.the sylverperch are not cannibalistic the marry codd are. ca. 100 marrys got a 5000l tank
and the sylver and the catfish ca 550 -600 shearing the other tank that is ca 1fish per 8liter of water the fish are between
6 montes an 18montes old. and i got no problems . more later manfred

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Well said, Kobus! My understanding is that plants require 16 macro and micro nutrients, but 2 of those are Oxygen and Hydrogen that they get from the air and the water so that may be where you are getting your 14 number from.


Kobus Jooste said:

Darryl - the ammonia gets tested because it is given off by fish as a waste metabolite, and is not only the nutrient that comes into your water column in the largest quantity but is also potentially the quickest fish killer from a poor water quality point of view. That is why we test so carefully for it. Plants need around 14 - 16 (not EXACTLY sure) macro and trace nutrients, of which (depending on manufacturer) all but a few are in the fish food. elements such as oxygen, carbon and hydrogen can obviously be sourced from the water too, while molybdenum and boron will not be found in fish food in sufficient levels as animals need far less of it than plants. Iron is often also too low, while sodium levels may be too high in some foods. If you balance pH with something containing potassium or calcium (hydroxide or carbonate) you will have enough of those. Fish solid waste contains some carbon, nitrogen and most of the trace elements needed, while the dissolved wastes carry most of the nitrogen in the form of ammonia. Roughly 70% of the protein component of your food will be ammonia a few hours after a feeding session. Aquaponics provides and aerobic environment where the combination of dissolved and solid wastes are turned over by micro-organisms, bacteria and worms to become a potent plant growth coctail that will not become toxic over time. You need media for bacteria and worms, a way to pass your solids and water through the media, and off you go. We keep an eye on the temperature, pH, dissolved oxygen and nitrogen status of the water in oder to keep the fish happy, and then keep an eye on the plants for signs of trace element deficiencies. Most people add small doses of these to their system at the first sign of chlorosis, or just dose intermittantly anyways.

Darryl Hinson said:

I understand the value of growing fish along with vegrtables ....but what if I'm allergic to fish....I may want to eliminate the fish from the system....from what I can glean so far, the fish produce ammonia ....why couldnt I just add ammonia manually and do away with the fish....pure ammonia is pretty cheap and I DO have a test kit.....
So then I'm into the hydroponic arena....but I've read that hydroponics have their problems with having to do a water change out....so the fish must produce more than just ammonia....??

[TCLynx]

While this might not be a be-all-end-all of golden rules or anything, it does provide a good amount of basic info to help people out with beginning media based system design.
Often Repeated stuff

And if you want to run aquaponics but don't want fish and don't want to switch over to pure hydroponics the options might be going to
Pee Ponics (I don't recommend this for commercial production but can be made relatively safe for a family not on any heavy medications or substances.)
Or
Vermiponics