Goal: Perfect Barrel-based Aquaponics

[Dylan]

Hello everyone,

I am very glad to find that this community exists and already you all have help me make my aquaponics system start coming to life, but I'm finding it hard to find definitive answers to questions as they pertain to the particular system I want to build so I'd like to start a discussion about my system here.  I would appreciate any and all criticism of my system.  I'm working with a very limited budget and I am a bit of a perfectionist so I would like to try to make my system and solid and well thought out as possible.

So far I have 2 55 gallon HDPE barrels (one with a removable top).  I had planned on splitting the sealed barrel in half and creating two grow beds out of it while using the other barrel as the fish tank standing up-right.

The image below describes my basic system:

The second water tank was the only way I could think of to make the water level in the fish tank not drop so much when pumping water into the beds since this is a flood and drain setup, but even then, the fish tank will drop to half level.  In anyones experience, does that upset the fish?  Can anyone suggest a better way of curbing the water level decrease?

The fish will be put in the second tank (the one without the pump) so that the noise of the pump is not as loud, but I wonder if the fish would like the drain to be in their tank.  Also, is it necessary to put the drain in there tank so the water (and the DO) circulate through the system better?

I'm also concerned about a bio filter.  How necessary is it and where would be a good place to put it in my system?

I'm planning on using gravel as a medium (mainly because it will be cheaper to get 55 gallons of) and possibly putting some earthworms in my beds to help things along.  Anyone have any advice/tips based on that info?

Any and all help is very very much appreciated.  Thank you all for building this community and offering yourselves up as a resource.  Once I am knowledgable on the subject, I definitely plan to do the same. :D

[Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair]

You won't need the second barrel because the volume of your grow media will displace water. You will end up only filling your grow beds with about 25% of the water in your fish tank. Your grow media (gravel) will be your bio filter once the bacteria have established themselves. Also you want the pump in the tank with the fish as it will be pumping the poop to the grow beds and cleaning the tank. The noise is not an issue with most pumps.

[Dylan]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense, Jonathan.  Thank you for the help.

Jonathan Kadish said:

You won't need the second barrel because the volume of your grow media will displace water. You will end up only filling your grow beds with about 25% of the water in your fish tank. Your grow media (gravel) will be your bio filter once the bacteria have established themselves. Also you want the pump in the tank with the fish as it will be pumping the poop to the grow beds and cleaning the tank. The noise is not an issue with most pumps.

[Jonathan Kadish NYC AA Chair]

Couple of other things... Fish swim horizontally usually so you may want to change the orientation of the fish tank and don't forget to do a fizz test with vinegar on the gravel you are getting too. You want to make sure it isn't going to elevate the PH in your system. No fizz or very little is good.

[Dylan]

Yeah, I was thinking that, but I have seen people put them in barrels standing up-right.  I suppose I will turn it sideways though. Thanks.

Jonathan Kadish said:

Couple of other things... Fish swim horizontally usually so you may want to change the orientation of the fish tank and don't forget to do a fizz test with vinegar on the gravel you are getting too. You want to make sure it isn't going to elevate the PH in your system. No fizz or very little is good.

[Travis W. Hughey]

I know you're asking as a newcomer to this whole aquaponics thing but to title your post like you did is a bit arrogant, don't you think?  Besides that, the system you are thinking about (your system) is not a Barrel-Ponics® system at all.  It might someday be a barrel based aquaponics system but Barrel-Ponics® is a specific system designed by me and I do hold a registered Federal Trademark for the term.  Please refrain from using the term Barrel-Ponics® when referring to your system and when you do finish it and test it and thousands have read your manual and who knows how many have built it maybe then you can say you have something "done right".  There are limitations to using bell siphons I chose not to use in my system and as such I can pretty much run any flow rate I wish (not so with a bell siphon).  The comment is correct about turning the fish tank on it's side rather than leaving it upright.  Don't worry so much about the fish tank level dropping.  It's not an issue and I have been doing this for almost a decade now.  If the growbed volume is a 1:1 ratio to the fish tank and the media you use is 1/4" - 3/8" it will take about 10 gallons of water per barrel half to flood it.  This leaves more than half the water in the fish tank at any given time.  Don't stock the fish tank too high.  I commonly grow two barrel half systems with only 5 or 6 tilapia the size of your hand.  The fish will not grow very big in these small systems and plant growth is the primary feature on them.  If you want to grow a lot of large fish the small barrel system is not the one for you.  If you simply want to learn then this is a good route to go.  We have several systems here from small 2 barrel half systems to one I am in construction now that will have 80.  When you go to the bigger systems, running multiple bell siphons will be a maintenance nightmare.

[Jon Parr]

Wow, Travis, touché. And even though you felt slighted, you offer help. Bravo.  

Though I didn't get the feeling Dylan posted in arrogance, I did feel he posted in ignorance. No offense, Dylan, but there are thousands of pages of info and pictures about using barrels for Aquaponics, and I have a hard time believing you couldn't have found the answers you are looking for in less time than it took to type the post and include your diagram. Travis gives freely 101 pages of details and pictures, google barrelponics, its the top item. Anyway, moving on, to answer your question regarding a better way to maintain fish tank level, DO, pump noise, and circulation; just put your pump in the second barrel and connect the two barrels with a SLO pipe rather than the low pipe you have drawn. An SLO (solids lift overflow) is simply a pipe that plumbs through the side wall of fish tank at the desired water line, then T's down to the bottom of the tank to a screened opening. FT stays full, second tank (called sump) absorbs any difference in volume from flood and drain and evaporation. 

[Dylan]

Woah.  I assure you, Travis, my deepest apologies are extended.  I certainly did not mean to encroach on your trademark, just simply encapsulate the project in a simple title as well as give a hint to the fact that I'm not afraid of scrutinous criticism (hence the "done right").  Again, I apologize if I offended you.  I appreciate your advice and I will definitely take it into consideration when building my system.

I do have a question though.  What exactly would limit a bell siphon? Drain speed?

Thank you,

Dylan

Travis W. Hughey said:

I know you're asking as a newcomer to this whole aquaponics thing but to title your post like you did is a bit arrogant, don't you think?  Besides that, the system you are thinking about (your system) is not a Barrel-Ponics® system at all.  It might someday be a barrel based aquaponics system but Barrel-Ponics® is a specific system designed by me and I do hold a registered Federal Trademark for the term.  Please refrain from using the term Barrel-Ponics® when referring to your system and when you do finish it and test it and thousands have read your manual and who knows how many have built it maybe then you can say you have something "done right".  There are limitations to using bell siphons I chose not to use in my system and as such I can pretty much run any flow rate I wish (not so with a bell siphon).  The comment is correct about turning the fish tank on it's side rather than leaving it upright.  Don't worry so much about the fish tank level dropping.  It's not an issue and I have been doing this for almost a decade now.  If the growbed volume is a 1:1 ratio to the fish tank and the media you use is 1/4" - 3/8" it will take about 10 gallons of water per barrel half to flood it.  This leaves more than half the water in the fish tank at any given time.  Don't stock the fish tank too high.  I commonly grow two barrel half systems with only 5 or 6 tilapia the size of your hand.  The fish will not grow very big in these small systems and plant growth is the primary feature on them.  If you want to grow a lot of large fish the small barrel system is not the one for you.  If you simply want to learn then this is a good route to go.  We have several systems here from small 2 barrel half systems to one I am in construction now that will have 80.  When you go to the bigger systems, running multiple bell siphons will be a maintenance nightmare.

[Dylan]

Thank you for the input, Jon.  That sounds as much like what I was originally intending to do, but with the advice from Travis as far as the water level goes and with my limited budget, I might have to wait a while before I can implement that.  I will certainly keep that in mind though.

On the subject of creating my post, while it's true that there are thousands of pages on systems similar to the one I am building, that is exactly why I made this post instead of simply using the information on those pages.  I have read hundreds of those pages and many do things slightly differently (like standing the fish tank up-right or using a drain system other than a bell siphon) and I felt it was appropriate to make this post not only to organize my thoughts and plans for my system, but to bounce them off responding, experienced people and "talk shop", so to speak.  After all, is that not what this discussion feature is for?  Sharing ideas?

Hopefully we can put the very simple titling error of my post made in the "Member Systems Introductions" discussion section to rest and make or leave any discussion pertaining to making my actual system.  :-)

Thank you to all who offered advice.

Jon Parr said:

Wow, Travis, touché. And even though you felt slighted, you offer help. Bravo.  

Though I didn't get the feeling Dylan posted in arrogance, I did feel he posted in ignorance. No offense, Dylan, but there are thousands of pages of info and pictures about using barrels for Aquaponics, and I have a hard time believing you couldn't have found the answers you are looking for in less time than it took to type the post and include your diagram. Travis gives freely 101 pages of details and pictures, google barrelponics, its the top item. Anyway, moving on, to answer your question regarding a better way to maintain fish tank level, DO, pump noise, and circulation; just put your pump in the second barrel and connect the two barrels with a SLO pipe rather than the low pipe you have drawn. An SLO (solids lift overflow) is simply a pipe that plumbs through the side wall of fish tank at the desired water line, then T's down to the bottom of the tank to a screened opening. FT stays full, second tank (called sump) absorbs any difference in volume from flood and drain and evaporation. 

[Jon Parr]

Fair enough, Dylan. It really was just unfortunate wording, I know. And I don't mean ignorant in a bad way, but simply not knowing. I consider myself chief among the ignorant clan, I learn (or relearn) simple stuff every day.
Moving the pump over one bucket and piping the overflow as an SLO won't cost you a penny more, and will solve all your concerns. In fact, it saves you a bulkhead fitting on the second bucket because it can enter above the hi-water mark. It also keeps your fixtures free (pain in the butt to affix two barrels at the bottom, and then they must be moved together to service or relocate or modify). An SLO may be used on vertical or horizontal barrels. While Travis knows his stuff, and fluctuating FT water level is not a deal breaker, it is nice to have fish in a constant volume of water, IMO.
I share Travis's aversion to bell siphons. I have a dozen of them in service, and it's a full time job keeping them on schedule. Some folks have great luck, some have no luck, but most users of bell siphons have a love/hate relationship with them, and must regularly clean pump, pipes, and bell. Larger pumps with larger bells and drains last longer between service.

[Travis W. Hughey]

Apology accepted.  No problem.  The title made it sound as if you thought Barrel-Ponics® was somehow not done right in the first place.  Coming from someone who hasn't even built a system or even the Barrel-Ponics® system to boot and basically throw it under the bus was a bit much.  Unfortunately there are too many these days trying to make a name for themselves by downing other systems.  Glad to hear you are actually not one of those.  As far as bell siphons go, all siphons, no matter the design (loop , bell, etc...), have a band in which they operate.  Don't put enough flow to them (pump get clogged) and they can't initiate and the water simply trickles through them.  In your case leaving the growbed flooded and the fish tank needing the water.  Too much flow and the siphon will not break between cycles.  The Flood Valve I designed doesn't suffer from this issue.  The use of a siphon in the Barrel-Ponics® mechanism uses an inside diameter of 1/4" so the flow required to initiate a siphon that small is very little.  I have functioned my system on flow rates as low as 10 GPH.  That would be like trying to operate your design on a cycle time of draining the growbeds every 2 hours.  I have found a cycle time of around 45 minutes to be very beneficial.  I fast flood though and slow drain with no flow into the gravel between cycles to encourage good gas exchange at the root level in the growbeds and harden off my plants a bit so if there is any power failures my plants don't have any issues.  I had 6ft. pepper plants this past year that produced like crazy as well.  The main system here that has been functioning since 2006 has 37 barrel halves with a flood tank dumping 350 gallons of water per cycle with a 1000 gallon fish tank.  The water level only changes I would guess 8"-10" between cycles and I commonly run over 300 fish in there during the peak season.

Dylan said:

Woah.  I assure you, Travis, my deepest apologies are extended.  I certainly did not mean to encroach on your trademark, just simply encapsulate the project in a simple title as well as give a hint to the fact that I'm not afraid of scrutinous criticism (hence the "done right").  Again, I apologize if I offended you.  I appreciate your advice and I will definitely take it into consideration when building my system.

I do have a question though.  What exactly would limit a bell siphon? Drain speed?

Thank you,

Dylan

Travis W. Hughey said:

I know you're asking as a newcomer to this whole aquaponics thing but to title your post like you did is a bit arrogant, don't you think?  Besides that, the system you are thinking about (your system) is not a Barrel-Ponics® system at all.  It might someday be a barrel based aquaponics system but Barrel-Ponics® is a specific system designed by me and I do hold a registered Federal Trademark for the term.  Please refrain from using the term Barrel-Ponics® when referring to your system and when you do finish it and test it and thousands have read your manual and who knows how many have built it maybe then you can say you have something "done right".  There are limitations to using bell siphons I chose not to use in my system and as such I can pretty much run any flow rate I wish (not so with a bell siphon).  The comment is correct about turning the fish tank on it's side rather than leaving it upright.  Don't worry so much about the fish tank level dropping.  It's not an issue and I have been doing this for almost a decade now.  If the growbed volume is a 1:1 ratio to the fish tank and the media you use is 1/4" - 3/8" it will take about 10 gallons of water per barrel half to flood it.  This leaves more than half the water in the fish tank at any given time.  Don't stock the fish tank too high.  I commonly grow two barrel half systems with only 5 or 6 tilapia the size of your hand.  The fish will not grow very big in these small systems and plant growth is the primary feature on them.  If you want to grow a lot of large fish the small barrel system is not the one for you.  If you simply want to learn then this is a good route to go.  We have several systems here from small 2 barrel half systems to one I am in construction now that will have 80.  When you go to the bigger systems, running multiple bell siphons will be a maintenance nightmare.

[Todd Sowell]

Did I miss something here? I see Cylindro-ponics but not barrel ponics mentioned in the posts.

[Jon Parr]

Yea, you missed it, Todd. The post has been edited, the original read something like 'barrel-ponics done right'.