Is Aquaponics Vegan?

[Neddy Newitt]

Veganism - "the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals"

So...is aquaponically grown food vegan?

Apologies for throwing out a curly one as my first post!

I'm looking to start a commercial system in a very "forward thinking" area of Australia, where I'd like to take my produce to some of the local farmers markets.

I believe there to be a large part of the community that are vegan.    A vegan might argue that aquaponics is not vegan as an animal is used in the growing process, but by the same logic do they also aim to avoid vegetables grown using chicken manure or worm wee?  

I feel I need to be well prepared for the inevitable question at the markets, what is your angle on this?

[TCLynx]

I expect that Aquaponics would not be "Vegan".  (There are completely vegan farms out there that use no manure though the worms naturally living in the soil are probably overlooked.  Now the point there I believe is avoidance of certain diseases so they don't want any manure or animal byproducts like bone meal, blood meal, tankage, feather meal, etc, used on the farm though I expect there could be idealistic reasons for some as well.)

Now it will depend on how "Vegan" some one is and are they doing it as a dietary thing or is it an idealistic thing to them.  Certainly the fish isn't vegan so I must figure that you are talking about the veggies.

If some one asks, don't beat around the bush, tell them what aquaponics is and that there are fish involved.  If they have a problem with that, let them move on. 

Do play up the water conservation angle of aquaponics since it is the way to grow more food for every drop of water beating out all other recirculating growing methods because aquaponics doesn't require water changes and the only losses are through evaporation/transpiration which would exist in those growing methods also.  Also play up the angle that you can't use toxic pesticides or herbicides without risking killing your fish and bio-filter so you have to stick to very low toxicity methods (remember that "organic" pesticides can still be toxic stuff so aquaponics is even better than "organic" there.)

[Chris Carr]

I am not too familiar with the definitions of vegan so maybe they do not believe in pets either, but angling your pitch that you're fish are koi for ornamental purposes, not for consumption could go along way as well. Not nearly as an important point as TC makes about water waste but some people see "impact" of things differently.

[Damon Polta]

are vegans allowed to eat carnivorous plants?

all jokes aside, there are many types of vegans, ranging from the extremely vegan that don't want people to keep pets, to the vegans that fake their way through it and enjoy butter on their muffins... really if the animals aren't making their way into the food in any form the dietary aspect would be intact... if it's for the treatment of the animals... wouldn't you be looking at a PETA issue?

[TCLynx]

There are many people out there that carry it to the extreme of you shouldn't even keep pets (even if there life would be worse in the wild, it just isn't natural.)  And to them putting a fish in any sort of tank or man made pond and feeding it fits into that.

As to PETA, hum are we talking about the Terrorists?  Or the ones that don't think people should have pets?  Or just the ones that want humane treatment of animals but domestic animals, even for food is ok as long as they are treated and killed humanely?  There are a wide range of levels here.

[Jeff Givan]

A dear friend of ours is vegan and her outlook at aquaponics was great as long as the fish were "rescued from death" and maintained in appropriate ways.  No over crowding!  But, this lovely lady also is one of the largest supporters of the local animal shelter.  So, just as in life there are all kinds!

[nimrod bash]

well i guess it depends on the subjective view of "exploiting animals"

and even if the traditional tilapia and vegetables does not fit to the subjective view of your market

another form of aquaponics will fit it

aquaponics is not only for fish , it's the integration of aqacultior and hydroculture

and that can imitate every possible solution dune in other ways ...

the subjective view of your market might be irrational

solution and source for the irrational faith as far as i know is politics

[Sylvia Bernstein]

Nimrod, I'm really glad that you brought this thread back to life because it is a fascinating one, for sure!  I went and looked up the definition of Veganism and found that you can think of it in several levels, including "Dietary Vegans", who simply don't eat animal products, and "Ethical Vegans" who avoid the exploitation of animals in any way.  Neddy, you probably have a good chance with the Dietary Vegans if you just don't sell them fish.  After all, their organic produce was probably raised with manure from cattle that was later a steak on someone's plate.  But the Ethical Vegan might be a tough sell....

[Alex Veidel]

I had a talk with my chickens about how they might end up being soup some day in the distant future and they seemed alright with it. They kinda turned their heads sideways and looked at me funny, but they had no complaints (I guess they did cluck at me a little). I asked some turkeys and they said "gobble gobble gobble" so not only were they cool with it, but they sounded rather for being eaten. (The sheep, however, vetoed the idea of mutton and said "baa". They're a bunch of wet blankets anyway, [especially when it rains], so I might just ignore their opinion. :) This is probably the worst joke I have ever made, but it was the first thing that came to my mind lol. Don't judge me.

[Alex Veidel]

I don't think aquaponics is exploiting animals. I mean, you are taking something that is already happening in nature and using to produce food. Fish are gonna be poopin' anyway, why not harness that? Saying that is exploitation would be like saying composting is unfairly taking advantage of the untimely deaths of innocent plants. (And there are people who refuse to kill plants as well.)

As a side note, anyone ever notice how people tend to care more about what happens to animals than the animals care? As humans, we have lengthy discussions on how to protect the animals and keep them from harm. You can find a poor abandoned bird on the side of the road with a broken wing. You spend weeks making a cast for it and nursing it back to health, and the moment you release that bird outside, chances are high that its hindered flight just make it an ideal target for Mr. Falcon. If it limps, its lunch. That's how nature plays.

Do I believe that humans are equal to animals? No. I believe humans are better. And I do believe that humans are to harness the benefits of nature to their own benefit. But I do NOT believe, however, that humans should be allowed to take advantage of nature in a destructive way to satisfy their selfish greed and ambitions. Survival and prosperity are different from greed. Animals and plants are put on earth for our good and our goal is to enjoy the benefits, and properly take care of the earth as stewards of nature. Eating plants, eating animals, that's just apart of the design of nature right now. But we can do that without greed and the selfish utilization of nature.

[nimrod bash]

there is no way of distinguishing exploitation from symbiosis relationships

at least no way that comes to my mind

every attempt i make end up with weird things like free will/voluntary/choice in it

it is my view that's symbiosis and exploitation are actually the same things

only things that distinguish them are the points of view these relationships looked at

[Bob Terrell]

Great answer TC!

TCLynx said:

I expect that Aquaponics would not be "Vegan".  (There are completely vegan farms out there that use no manure though the worms naturally living in the soil are probably overlooked.  Now the point there I believe is avoidance of certain diseases so they don't want any manure or animal byproducts like bone meal, blood meal, tankage, feather meal, etc, used on the farm though I expect there could be idealistic reasons for some as well.)

Now it will depend on how "Vegan" some one is and are they doing it as a dietary thing or is it an idealistic thing to them.  Certainly the fish isn't vegan so I must figure that you are talking about the veggies.

If some one asks, don't beat around the bush, tell them what aquaponics is and that there are fish involved.  If they have a problem with that, let them move on. 

Do play up the water conservation angle of aquaponics since it is the way to grow more food for every drop of water beating out all other recirculating growing methods because aquaponics doesn't require water changes and the only losses are through evaporation/transpiration which would exist in those growing methods also.  Also play up the angle that you can't use toxic pesticides or herbicides without risking killing your fish and bio-filter so you have to stick to very low toxicity methods (remember that "organic" pesticides can still be toxic stuff so aquaponics is even better than "organic" there.)

[Alex Veidel]

True Nimrod. The word "exploitation" can be used two ways. One is simply benefitting from someone or something else. The other definition involves selfishly taking advantage of another being to get ahead, with no regard to the wellfare of others. Since for vegans, "exploitation" is to be avoided, I'm assuming they lean toward the more negative definition. More like a parasitic relationship than a symbiotic one.

nimrod bash said:

there is no way of distinguishing exploitation from symbiosis relationships

at least no way that comes to my mind

every attempt i make end up with weird things like free will/voluntary/choice in it

it is my view that's symbiosis and exploitation are actually the same things

only things that distinguish them are the points of view these relationships looked at