Aquaponics in soil

[Elan yadan]

What would be a good way to filter the runoff and keep it soil-free. Someone suggested a particle filter. Or draining into a bed of hydro. Perhaps putting rocks in the sump tank. Any thoughts please. Thanks

[jim mckee]

Howdy

I'm not quite catching what your asking and what you have set up.

If you will be a little more descriptive it may help.

jim

[Elan yadan]

Was considering trying out a small system 50 gallons fish tank and 4x4ft flood table using 5 gallon smart pots, soil and worms. I would need to find the best way to filter the runoff as it will be too dirty to return it back to the fish.

[jim mckee]

Oh I got it now.

Just skip the soil,, that keeps it more simple.

Use an innert growing medum like gravel, expanded shale etc. for the grow bed.

Worms are OK but if you can filter solids out prior to the grow bed you will have less issues.

And a proper amount of worms in a grow bed works but one has to be sure to feed the worms enough which adds a complication (worms die/decompose and you see the results in water tests and now have to react). 

Filtering solids shows you exactly how your filter is performing.

Also if you don't mind a little small plumbing, your grow beds can be most anywhere (just set it up so you don't get a big temp change from the water lines.

What are you doing for lighting the grow beds?

jim

 

 

 

[Elan yadan]

Jim I'm liking the benefits of soil over hydro. I'll only have to run the system once every 2-3 days for an hour or so just to fill up the 4" flood table. I figure if I fill the bed slowly then the soil should soak up what it needs for the top layer and not get over-saturated. I'll be able to add stimulants and additives and not harm the fish or the worms. I could simply add as needed into the standpipe in the fish tank, I plan on having it at half the height of the tank w the extra water from the sump tank running directly into the standpipe to the grow bed. And if this small scale experimental system works then I could potentially use a much smaller fish tank and distribute the water to different grow beds set on automated timers. Two things I'm not looking forward to.. Big fish tanks and running a hydro system 24/7. I already have a lot of soil just started w about 50 bags and amended it w perlite, peat moss and some hydroton and beneficial microbes so I'm not thrilled about having to replace it so soon.

I'm set up for 12 lights 6- 4x8" flood tables. For the experimental system I was gonna use just a 4x4' table and 16 smart pots. They fit very snug inside of the table. I have a 5x5' tent. Also I was planning on feeding worms to my fish and turtles. How long do the worms live for and if I went thru the soil every 8-10 weeks at time of harvest do you think that would be enough time to sift thru and perhaps take out any dead worms before it becomes a problem? Thanks Jim

[Keith Rowan]

it might, but i don't think you'd get the benefit of actually filtering all of the ammonia out of the ft water.. that's the point of the growbeds - to be "filters" for the ft..

the common "rule of thumb" for water turnover is to turn over the ft volume at least 1x an hour..

i've seen a system that has soil in the growbeds, it looked like the "soil" growbeds were kind of a flow through wicking bed.. and i don't think these were the primary filtration for the ft water though as there were other media beds, as well as alternate filtration methods included (radial filter, etc)..

[Elan yadan]

[Elan yadan]

Keith Rowan said:

it might, but i don't think you'd get the benefit of actually filtering all of the ammonia out of the ft water.. that's the point of the growbeds - to be "filters" for the ft..

the common "rule of thumb" for water turnover is to turn over the ft volume at least 1x an hour..

i've seen a system that has soil in the growbeds, it looked like the "soil" growbeds were kind of a flow through wicking bed.. and i don't think these were the primary filtration for the ft water though as there were other media beds, as well as alternate filtration methods included (radial filter, etc)..

[Jon Parr]

So Élan. I'm missing something here, I guess. I get the soil. And the wicking style. Dandy. If you are using smart pots, then what exactly are you needing to filter before the FT? It doesn't sound like you are cycling the tray water, but even of you are, the smart pots should contain the soil. Now, another thing. You may actually have better success with keeping your old soil, rather than replacing it each time. I've read some MJ threads where crops get better each cycle for at least a few grows, better than controlled environment tests against "new" soil. Now, a few more points. The hydroton won't give you any benefit mixed into soil, it just displaces good soil, unless you are creating a drain layer of pure hydroton at the bottom. Worms live for several years, and if and when they do die they are quickly consumed by other worms, so you never have to worry about their life cycle, or even harvesting the surplus.

Fish tanks are quite functional at converting ammonia to nitrate on their own, with or without plants and Aquaponics. So if the FT was stable on its own, the flood tables will only benifit by removing the accumulating nitrates. All good?

[Elan yadan]

Jon that's great to know about the worms thanks. Yes I plan on reusing the soil. I also plan on feeding some worms to my turtles & fish on occasion. I think the runoff will be dirty and still need to get filtered. I'm gonna lay down 1 inch of sand on the bottom of the table and fill in the gaps between the pots w hydroton and I just picked up a small filter from my local hydro store. Looks like it fits onto a garden hose so I'll run my drain thru that..

I'm actually gonna be trying something a little different. The reason I want to use soil is so I can add stimulants & additives as needed. The fish and turtles will provide my base nutrients. The salt buildup won't be an issue because of the soil. Then the soil bed will drain to a hydro bed. Two pumps in the sump tank. One pump to the fish that fills the soil bed once every 2-3 days and the other pump going back to the hydro bed to further filter the runoff before returning it back to the fish. I'm hoping this will keep the nutrients out of the fish tank so I'll have to grow something that will use those nutrients. Was thinking tomatoes peppers and maybe strawberries? What do you think? Does that make sense? Lol

[Elan yadan]

And I should also add. The fish tank will be half full at the level I make my standpipe. The pump in the sump tank will hopefully be pumping clean water back to the fish that will overflow into the standpipe that will drain to the soil bed. Only to make this more confusing!

[Jon Parr]

It makes sense, sure. There are probably some tricks that you can use here:
http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/group/fish-less-systems/for...
I have done quite a bit of experimentation with separating my fish water from at least a portion of the plants roots, so that I can pump up the nutrient levels.

Oddly enough, the plants you listed are relatively light feeders, in fact strawberries can be grown on our tap water alone. Toms and peppers will use some nutes, but do pretty well without, and are tolerant of pretty high pH. Now, cucumbers and squash can pull some nutrients, and actually some of the rapid growing water plants do a good job of pulling out nutes as well, like water cress and hyacyth.

I question whether gravity overflow would make its way through a water-hose type of filter (if I understood that correctly), but give it a shot. You may also have trouble getting the solids to exit the FT using an overflows, and the solution there is to use a SLO drain. You can search this site for good diagrams of that, if you're not already familiar. Have fun.

[Elan yadan]

Jon thanks again. I definitely forgot to mention the modification to the standpipe i would like to design. So the standpipe would be removable perhaps w an EZ fitting and connected to a valve. Once a week i could close the valve, remove the standpipe and slowly open the valve releasing the water from the base of tank and use a brush to steer the heavier waste into the drain for a heavy weekly feeding. Close the valve and put the standpipe back in. I have a rock formation in the center of the tank w holes in the bottom and a hollow center for a filter that I removed. The waste mostly collects inside this rock. I plan on drilling a hole thru the center and sending the standpipe thru it.

Also I have to consider ph. The extra nutrients will lower the ph level which should make the soil happy but i may need to consider raising the ph somehow before going back to the fish. Oyster shells in the sump tank?