adjusting the PH

[David Waite]

Hello fellow fish huggers. My well water is at 8.0 . Has anybody use a acid they recommend for lower the PH. My system hasnt been run yet as it is in its final stage but the water is sure is high for starting off. My system is 1000 gal so an economical option would be great.

[Izzy]

Your hardware stores, pool stores, and local home improvement stores should all carry chemicals to adjust your pH.  Often times the "pH down/up" solutions sold from hydroponic stores are the SAME CHEMICALS at ridiculous prices!  Don't fall for the marketing!!! :-)

David Waite said:

Thank you Kobus. Where do you purchase your chemicals.

[David Waite]

Hey you two kiss and make up. I think when a chemist or water science guru such as Rupert or izzy comment on these water issues it helps us all. Yes there is practical and theoretical to water management. That is what makes aquaponics so great. A tinkerer or mad scientist can experiment with all types of ways to get the desired results of lowering ph. My situation turned out to be my media had a buffer that is why I struggle with a high ph and not my water so much. I can easily lower my water to 7 with muratic only to watch is bounce back to 8 because of my media. Lets keep it civil and it makes us all better for it.

[Izzy]

I am an environmental scientist, but I do know my chemistry (at least the basics, not so much the harder stuff).  I expect to mainly focus on aquaponics in my post-graduate research.  The goal of my career, and arguably my life, is to save lives. I like helping people (for free of course) because it helps me learn and I just like helping people (normally, LOL).  I actually volunteer hundreds of hours every year in my community as well.  That guy seems to dislike me for some reason as this was not the first incident, but to be totally honest I did not even look at whose post I was replying to before I replied (I just looked at the content).  It's like stepping into an ant pile when you're not looking, haha!!!!!  Seriously though, I just don't understand the desire to hold me in contempt for merely stating the facts... can't win 'em all I guess.

[David Waite]

Izzy because of your engineering or analytical  writing style it is harsher than you actually mean. I get it but it might have offended some. I would keep on posting here and teach people what you can and leave the ones you cant. Good luck.

[Jim Logios]

Yes, but acidic water eats away at the copper allowing it to oxidize more easily.

izzy said:

Oxygen turns copper green not acidic drinking water.

Jim Logios said:

Thanks TC.  Not sure if my water is "buffered" or not.  I am on a deep well (300+ feet) and the water is good quality, and tasty.  I know it's on the acidic side since I have copper pipes inside the house that  paints my bath tub "copper green".

[Izzy]

It's not that it eats it away faster, but acts as a catalyst to speed up the reaction.  However, if you see from the original post he used the fact that it turned green to conclude the water was acidic.  Although this might by happenstance be true in some cases, it does not at all prove that the water is acidic.  All copper will eventually turn green with or without the presence of acid.  A proper pH test is better suited to determining if the water is acidic as one would not want to take action on the presence of patina, which is not an indicator of acid.  For example, one might have a pH of 8.5 and by thinking it is acidic and adding something to raise the pH... well, you see what I mean...

Jim Logios said:

Yes, but acidic water eats away at the copper allowing it to oxidize more easily.

izzy said:

Oxygen turns copper green not acidic drinking water.

Jim Logios said:

Thanks TC.  Not sure if my water is "buffered" or not.  I am on a deep well (300+ feet) and the water is good quality, and tasty.  I know it's on the acidic side since I have copper pipes inside the house that  paints my bath tub "copper green".

[TCLynx]

I agree there Izzy.

 

And please, all you guys, Izzy, Rupert, Kubus and others, do correct my chemistry if I make a mistake..  I'm certain you all have a far greater understanding of the real chemistry going on.  I do my best to translate into Laymans terms seeing as I'm not good at the chemistry beyond "knowing something is going on" and trying not to mess it up or make it worse while trying to fix it.

[Robin]

TCL-

TCL- My system too (25 gallons, small, vertical garden/ drip rrigation, 7 fish), runs around 8.2. Chicago water is about 8.3 my problem is that I have to add a lot of water every week due to evaporation. I bubble the tap water for 24 hours before adding to get the chlorine out, but short of buying distilled water or using rain water, what is a cheap, natural way to bring my PH down?! The goldfish are fine, but I've lost a pleco and two baby goldfish who probably couldn't adjust..I was wondering if I could solve a double problem of mineral buildups on the side of the tank by cleaning them with  a tiny bit of apple cider vinegar, and letting it rinse down the sides of the tank a little?

Thanks, Robin

 

 

 

 

You water is a little high for starting out but not as drastic as you think.  If you can adjust it down into the 7.2-7.6 range you might find that cycling may take quicker.  When I started up my 300 gallon system I decided to adjust the pH before starting the fishless cycling and I just got a container of pH down like is used for spas or pools (sulfuric acid) And I believe the directions on the bottle will be easy to figure for a 1000 gallon tank.  It took me several doses to get the pH down and it tended to pop back up to 7.6 so I finally left it and allowed the cycling to finish bringing it down below 7.  And the bio-filter action will bring the pH down provided your media or some other material in the system doesn't buffer the system up.

 

I wouldn't recommend using the sulfuric acid long term or anything but initial pre cycling application doesn't seem to have messed anything up.  The pool acid was probably only $5 at the grocery store here and you are not going to use that much of it.

 

Other options include

muratic acid

aquarium or pond pH down

phosphoric acid (like from a hydroponics shop)

 

vinegar might work but being organic the effect tends not to last so probably not the best choice

citric acid has antibacterial properties so I wouldn't recommend that

 

There are probably others but these are the ones I'm able to recall off the top of my head.

[TCLynx]

I would recommend adjusting the pH of your top up water before adding it to the system.  This way you and make the adjustment and let it bubble overnight and test the pH again to see where it settles (and if necessary do more doses and take longer in the adjustment) before adding it to the system and thereby avoiding the pH bouncing effect within the system.

 

Trying to kill two birds with one stone by using vinegar to clean the mineral deposits and letting it run down into the system, while this seems like an efficient thing to do, it is not a very controlled way to do it and I fear the pH adjustment may be too drastic and result in pH bouncing which is hard and fish, plants and bacteria.

[Robin]

 

Thanks TCL,

And what are your thoughts on apple cider vinagar?  I saw elsewhere that you suggested it as an organic, though temporary measure..?

 

[TCLynx]

Vinegar works for adjusting pH but may have some slight antibacterial properties so I wouldn't suggest using too much of it directly in a very new system.  It would probably be best used to counteract all the buffer in the top up water before using it in the system and then it would allow you to see if the pH bounces back up before using it in the system.

 

Using anything that will only bring the pH down temporarily directly in the system will be worse than not doing anything at all.

 

I've found that my hard well water took more than one dose of acid to get the pH down to 7,6 and to keep it there.  I didn't try to bring it down more when I started up my 300 gallon system.

[Robin]

TCL-

What do you mean by 'counteract all the buffer in the top up'?

thanks! r