Comments - Is Integrating Media Beds with DWC Worth It? - Aquaponic Gardening2024-03-29T13:35:18Zhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=4778851%3ABlogPost%3A264463&xn_auth=noYou rock Gina!tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2014-02-19:4778851:Comment:5487982014-02-19T15:34:59.598ZMichael Carlsenhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/MichaelCarlsen
<p>You rock Gina!</p>
<p>You rock Gina!</p> Thanks Rupert. I believe TCL…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-24:4778851:Comment:2687822011-12-24T17:46:07.261ZChris Smithhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ChrisSmith
<p>Thanks Rupert. I believe TCL is a distributor for this or a similar valve.</p>
<p>Thanks Rupert. I believe TCL is a distributor for this or a similar valve.</p> I did exactly that and was th…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2688472011-12-23T21:28:25.401ZGina Cavalierohttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/GinaCavaliero
<p>I did exactly that and was thinking Potassium when I a saw K. Thanks for the correction Rupert. </p>
<p>I did exactly that and was thinking Potassium when I a saw K. Thanks for the correction Rupert. </p> Not sure who distributes to H…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2685882011-12-23T20:45:13.389ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<p>Not sure who distributes to Hawaii Chris... TCL would probably know...</p>
<p>Here's a pic of the valve...</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772197897?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="750" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772197897?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="750"/></a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you want any info or flash files of how it works... email me...</p>
<p>Not sure who distributes to Hawaii Chris... TCL would probably know...</p>
<p>Here's a pic of the valve...</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772197897?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="750" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2772197897?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="750"/></a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you want any info or flash files of how it works... email me...</p> Rupert, can you give us a lin…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2685852011-12-23T20:13:19.472ZChris Smithhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/ChrisSmith
<p>Rupert, can you give us a link to the aquaponics valve you refer to?</p>
<p>Rupert, can you give us a link to the aquaponics valve you refer to?</p> Having said all that below...…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2685792011-12-23T19:08:31.524ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<p>Having said all that below... incorporating media beds into a commercial operation.. the grow beds would IMO.. benefit from a period where by they are periodically left "fallow".. primarily to allow for complete breakdown of any solids, roots etc... and for complete mineralisation...</p>
<p>This can be easily acheived by rotating a single bed out of service after cropping, especially after heavy cropping of tomatoes or other extensive root system vegetables...</p>
<p>And if need be... the…</p>
<p>Having said all that below... incorporating media beds into a commercial operation.. the grow beds would IMO.. benefit from a period where by they are periodically left "fallow".. primarily to allow for complete breakdown of any solids, roots etc... and for complete mineralisation...</p>
<p>This can be easily acheived by rotating a single bed out of service after cropping, especially after heavy cropping of tomatoes or other extensive root system vegetables...</p>
<p>And if need be... the media can be screened to remove the majority of root hairs.. or even rinsed.. then left for a period... where upon a lighter cropping vegetable can be rotated...</p>
<p>This is certainly the approach which I employ and recommend to my clients...</p> Bill... regarding "reliable a…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2688382011-12-23T19:00:23.603ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<p><font size="2" face="Century Gothic">Bill... regarding "reliable and reasonably cheap sequencing valve and controller to sequentially fill multiple media beds?"... indeed the "aquaponics valve" was developed for precisely this purpose...</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><font size="2" face="Century Gothic">But the "aquaponics valve" is sequenced by ceasation, and resumption of flow... not by an additional controller...</font></p>
<p><font size="2" face="Century Gothic">Bill... regarding "reliable and reasonably cheap sequencing valve and controller to sequentially fill multiple media beds?"... indeed the "aquaponics valve" was developed for precisely this purpose...</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><font size="2" face="Century Gothic">But the "aquaponics valve" is sequenced by ceasation, and resumption of flow... not by an additional controller...</font></p> Gina, I'm sorry.. but menadio…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2686852011-12-23T18:58:07.343ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<p>Gina, I'm sorry.. but menadione sodium bisulfate complex is NOT a synthetic version of Potassium...</p>
<p>It is actually Vitamin K3... Potassium is shown as "K" as a periodic element... which might be where the confusion came from...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> There are two natural forms of Vitamin K, phytonadione (vitamin K<sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">1</font></span></sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">) and menaquinone (vitamin…</font></span></p>
<p>Gina, I'm sorry.. but menadione sodium bisulfate complex is NOT a synthetic version of Potassium...</p>
<p>It is actually Vitamin K3... Potassium is shown as "K" as a periodic element... which might be where the confusion came from...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> There are two natural forms of Vitamin K, phytonadione (vitamin K<sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">1</font></span></sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">) and menaquinone (vitamin K</font></span><sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">2</font></span></sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">).</font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">Phytonadione occurs in plants and Menaquinone is produced by bacteria in the intestine.</font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">Menadione (</font></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="search-term"><font face="Century Gothic">vitamin</font></span> <span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">K</font></span><sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">3</font></span></sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">) is a synthetic form which does not have aliphatic side chain. Menadione is a vitamin precursor of V-K</font></span><sub><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">2</font></span></sub> <span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">which can be converted in the liver to active menaquinones by chemical alkylation in vivo.</font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">Menadione Is used as a source of vitamin K in the treatment of hypoprothrombinemia against vitamin K deficiency. It is not used directly as a nutritional supplement due to high toxicity and low stability.</font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">Menadione sodium bisulfite (MSB) is a water-soluble derivative of menadione for feed. But MSB has limited stability to light, heat, humidity, ambient pH values above neutrality and in the presence of some salts.</font></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font face="Century Gothic">Again, with the regular water top ups required due to transpiration losses... and the insignificant amounts contained in feeds... and it's inherent instability, and solubility... I do not believe that it represents a problem...</font></span></p>
<p></p> Ryan, when you said "salts" b…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2688372011-12-23T18:49:30.343ZRupertofOZhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/RupertofOZ
<p>Ryan, when you said "salts" buildup, I presumed you meant "salts" in a chemical sense... as in anions, negatively charged atoms... like chlorides, nitrates, sulphates etc...</p>
<p>The discussion now seems to have settle on "salts" meaning Sodium Chloride.. or particularly Sodium buildup...</p>
<p>In all the 6-7 years I've been running my systems I, and to my knowledge, all of the other long term aquaponicists in Australia... have never seen, or encountered any thing that even vaguely…</p>
<p>Ryan, when you said "salts" buildup, I presumed you meant "salts" in a chemical sense... as in anions, negatively charged atoms... like chlorides, nitrates, sulphates etc...</p>
<p>The discussion now seems to have settle on "salts" meaning Sodium Chloride.. or particularly Sodium buildup...</p>
<p>In all the 6-7 years I've been running my systems I, and to my knowledge, all of the other long term aquaponicists in Australia... have never seen, or encountered any thing that even vaguely suggests any Sodium buildup...</p>
<p>Nor are low levels of Sodium problematic per se... indeed I, and others have at times not only run systems periodically with salt levels from 1ppt - 6ppt, the latter for disease treatment.... and indeed I actually ran one of my systems at a constant level of 1ppt for nearly two years...</p>
<p>Likewise, both in my previous hydroponic operations, and my hybrid media bed, nft system which ran until recently for over 4 years... I would periodically add a proportion of pure sea water to my top ups... sea water being the highest concentration of naturally chelated trace elements available...</p>
<p>My plants thrived... as did the agricultural growth of farms in Aceh in the year after the tsunami inundated vast areas of cropping land...</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but unless you can provide imperical evidence to the contrary.. I'm going to have to say "myth busted"...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In terms of solids buildup, and development of anaerobic zones in media grow beds... again both my own experience, and that of many senior aquaponicists in Australia.. has clearly demonstrated, that correctly designed and sized grow bed... to stocking and feed levels... with the introduction of compost worms...</p>
<p>Has consistantly shown that no such problems occur... and I, Murray Hullam, and others have deliberately taken down grow beds that have been in operation for 3+ years, and photographed the results to demonstrate that it simply isn't the case....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>With the grow beds acting as both solids capture, mineraliasation, and nitrification... it is paramount to size them to maximum stock and feed levels... and to provide appropriate oxygenation levels, not just for the fish... but for the nitrification process, and breakdown of solids wastes....and that is where 99.9% of people who encounter problems come unstuck...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If you have had clients thaqt have elevated salinity levels... then IMO... the salinity must have been introduced by other means than any content from feed... and given the uptake of salt within some plants, and declining salinity concentrations over time with the regular system top ups that are necessary with media bed systems due to transpiration loss.. I can only assume that their systems were either introducing salinity through source water, had salt added at some stages... or were really poorly designed...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>On the question of sizing, or skimping regarding the sizing of grow beds... it in the end comes down to stocking densities and feed levels... and even allowing for the disproportionate stocking levels that Tilapia allow in comparison to most other fish... there is a grossly over-inflated level of stocking in most system...in relation to that which is actually required to provide for the nutrient needs of the plants...</p>
<p>This was one of the foundations of the "Friendlies" model of DWC in comparison to the UVI model...</p> I havent in my personal syste…tag:aquaponicgardening.ning.com,2011-12-23:4778851:Comment:2687362011-12-23T16:18:32.742ZRyan Chattersonhttps://aquaponicgardening.ning.com/profile/Ryan
I havent in my personal system Chris but I don't operate under the "remove no waste" methodology. I have however dealt with 5-7 customers over the past few years that don't remove any waste and they ran into this exact problem. Through some thurough trouble shooting we were able to determine that the problems were developing from salt toxicity. We then measured the salinity of the water to confirm suspicions and after lowering the salinity, the growth rates went back to normal. So yes, I have…
I havent in my personal system Chris but I don't operate under the "remove no waste" methodology. I have however dealt with 5-7 customers over the past few years that don't remove any waste and they ran into this exact problem. Through some thurough trouble shooting we were able to determine that the problems were developing from salt toxicity. We then measured the salinity of the water to confirm suspicions and after lowering the salinity, the growth rates went back to normal. So yes, I have seen it and that the only reason I even mention it.<br />
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"Again though to not do something because somebody may do it wrong seems to me as no reason to not advance this technology and we can at least hope to learn from these failures."<br />
Im all about advancing technology in this industry but the idea of using media beds isnt new techynology. I think the choice should come down to ease of use and price to build. I have no problem walking around a raft to harvest VS walking around a media bed to harvest. If you want some of the raft system to be mobile for harvesting then you just isolate those troughs and leave them dedicated to growing whatever mobile crop you want.