IBC Aquaponics

Jim no problem. Works just fine for 1 pic at a time but the tip was to do a whole batch of them at once. Sorry I misunderstood what you meant originally. You still can do one at a time on the commandline too though :) Whatever is most comfortable. Since most folks are likely on windows, resizing in mspaint or using the utility I linked to do batches of pictures will be handy as well.

Hey guys...another newbie question.  I am using a 275 gallon IBC system.  RIght now I have the water tank sitting in the metal base/pallet that it came in.   I wanted to get the tank down onto the ground so it is not quite so high but when I take out the plastic tank and set it on the ground, it has a significant wobble and does not sit flat.  There seems to be a seam in the middle.  I thought many people are using just the cage to support the outer edges and nothing along the bottom of the tank.  It looks like it can just sit on the ground.  Is that correct or do we have to do something?  I went through every post I can find but could not find info on this.  It is probably so basic nobody else needs to ask, but I am not the brightest bulb around sometimes.   Thanks in advance for any help....

Just remove the base from the cage.  There is a series of screws that hold the cage onto the base.  Use the torx head on these and remove them just as, I assume, you did on the top brace bars.  You may have to set the lower cage on some bricks buried in the ground, to insure that the cage doesn't sink into the ground and then install the fish tank back into the cage.  The tank just sits on the ground (or floor) and the cage will support the tank and the water, no problem.

Home Built Smoker - Best and Cheapest going http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUS1jeTGc68

Sweet, how do you add more chips without losing all the good smoke??

What does this have to do with aquaponics, unless you want to smoke your fish.

Of course it is for smoking appropriate AP fish; you do eventually eat the trout or tilapia don't you?  Add more chips?  Simply remove the lid, remove the rack and add the chips.  Loosing smoke is not a problem when you are cooking 7 or 8 hours.

@sunset, In my humble opinion the bottom of the cage and the top need support to keep the liner from expanding the cage and distorting it. Call me a fanatic but I don't want a bloated looking tank. I replace the 2 supports at the top after the liner is back in AND screw the bottom of the cage down to a base made from pressure treated garden ties covered with PT deck planks. You need to leave a space between the center 2 planks for that seam AND the drain ball valve.

Note the wider space at the center for the valve. Any large distortions and therefore stress of the plastic liner could IMO cause a failure over time so when I get rid of the metal base I make sure I replicate the shape as best I can. Personally I dislike the oem bases and often they are damaged by forklifts anyway and when it comes to getting 2 GBs from one ibc you will obviously come up short a base anyway on every other GB and I want them all to look basically the same. The GBs weigh far less than a full FT so I don't use as much support as you can see here:

I utilize every mounting screw hole and duplicate the same pattern for the upper half cage as well by drilling 1/4" holes in the same appropriate locations.

Hope this helps you and check out my other pics at my page by clicking on my avatar. There may be more there that can help and I started a FB page as well:

Smoky Mountain Aquaponics

@Pat. Yum, great idea. Do it. My trout are getting mighty big. Hurry

Well Jim-

  According to the question that sunset asked, what you are doing is just replacing the oem base with a wooden Floor.  How does this address the problem of lowering the FT because it is too high for sunset??.

  All my FT have the oem base attached, but my friends have repurposed the base for for other projects with no adverse affects on the structure or "bloating" of the FT when filled with water.  One difficulty they do experience is using the built in drain valve, otherwise everything works well for them.

If lowering the IBC liner into a hole in the ground, you could I suppose remove the base but you will need the cage and maybe something else around the tank to keep the soil from collapsing into the cage and crushing the liner.  But as far as making the base sit nicely,  You might do that with soft sand.  Basically you need to form a mold shape much like the base or the bottom of the liner so that the ground will support it as well as the base did.  This could be a bit tedious to accomplish and if burying the IBC part way, you will probably not be accessing the valve so I would suggest making sure it is closed and maybe even putting a cap on it.

Hi Leo, bury the PT as far under ground as sunset likes. Not sure the oem pallet would take kindly to being under ground for long. As far as bloat is concerned I have had them push the cage out quite a bit when not supported as I describe. The 330s are even worse. I like mine square but I am a bit anal about such.

@TC I set my sump down 4 feet with no base as I wanted ground contact as much as possible for temperature reasons and just as you suggest I made sure there was sand under all and made an impression for the valve. I back filled right to the cage/liner AFTER filling the ibc full of water or it would surely collapse. Our soil here sets like hard clay so after numerous soakings I am confident I could now pull the liner with no cave ins. Also you MUST close the valve before reinserting the liner or you will likely break it off as the handle sticks out when open so fairly hard to make that mistake. Either way that would suck

Wow.  Thanks for the input.  The issue I keep banging into is that I can't bury my sump in the place I have available.  That means other things have to be raised to compensate.  This starts to make the grow beds pretty darn high to be above the sump level.  That is why I was trying to gain every available inch.  Putting the sump directly on the ground would probably get me almost 6 inches but not if it puts the tank at risk.  I think I am going to have to leave it in the base.

Sunset-

  You may want to check out the CHOP 2 System build.  CHOP stands for Constant Hight One Pump.  With the constant hight in the fish tank being fed from your sump tank, the Fish Tank gravity feeds the grow beds which drains into the sump.  The water is then pumped into the FT from the sump.  You may want to check out the following web sites and You Tube videos.

http://farmingwithfish.com/?p=1151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urOpR-zAVIY

http://www.microponics.net.au/?p=901

http://gardenaquaponics.wordpress.com/tag/chop/

http://aquaponicfun.com/tips/best-first-aquaponic-system/

Thanks again!   You guys seriously rock.  

Yeah, I started off setting up a CHIFT PIST system but that meant putting my fish tanks SUPER high so they could gravity drain into the grow beds.  I am now converting to a CHOP system but I still need to get the grow beds above the level of the sumps.  I suppose I could use a lower sump or daisy chain a few of the lower sumps together to get the necessary volume but it still comes down to getting the height difference between the grow beds and the top of the sump so it can drain properly and avoid a bad rise to run ratio for the drainage.  Ugh.  Makes my head spin sometimes.

Sunset, any chance of putting the sump outside where you could bury it. Many large GH AP systems do it that way. Just a thought.

You're right. The sump sets the height for everything else. Perhaps you can set the FT very high with steps and a bench in front and that would leave the GBs at a waist or bench height and that is where you spend the most time tending the system. Are you in a GH, outside, in a basement, etc? In a basement you have height restrictions, for example so let us know.

The 3/4" decking I suggested would gain you quite a few inches if laid directly on the floor and just tied together cross wise ON TOP. Like an upside down frame. Would cost under 10.00 more than likely, certainly under 20.00. Grade 2 decking is like 7.00 for a 12 footer. A pt 2x4 would tie the ends together set on top. Inches do count when it comes to gravity flow.

You're smart to go with the clear water sump as pumping the fish waste can be rough on the pump. Keep us informed as to how you make out as many people are in the same boat when it comes to bury or not to bury the sump.

Even with a below grade sump I raised my 5 FTs quite a bit for max flow in a cascading manner. Here is what I mean for possible ideas: This has worked out even better than expected. My sump is in the foreground. There are so many ways to skin this cat

Hey I am new to this IBC site, I have 4 totes to set up one is already up and running. and has been for the last three days. I just sowed seed into the gravel grow bed. Has anyone ever done this or do you have to start with seedlings?

I am also putting tadpoles and crawfish in the 200 gallon tank to see if they live before I begin spending money on fingerlings.

@Michael At this point I've both transplanted carefully reared seedlings, and sewn directly into the media. Sewing into the media has resulted in less plant death. Something I've read in a few places: when you sew direct into the media is to bear in mind the harvest size of the plant and drop your seeds in with enough room for what we hope will be.

thanks

ran into a road block on setting up my other three grow beds, pea gravel is out of stock and all the landscaping supply stores. Here in the Columbus area.

is there anything else I can use that is not so cost prohibitive? Hydrocorn and expanded clay is outrageous price wise. Each grow bed takes approximately 12 cubic feet of grow medium.

Lava rock or otherwise called ciders

Hey Michael, we spent some time finding out what is mined locally and discovered a granite quarry right around the corner and get straight granite pea gravel for 18.00 per ton if we pu which we do with our 1 ton trailer. Looks beautiful, very easy to wash and supplies mineral dust for the system. Only down side is the slightly darker color does soak up more heat on sunny days than say river stone but when the plants get bigger they shade the GB anyway. 1 ton fills 2 GBs so hard to beat.

Stay away from bagged material if you can and buy locally. Ask a road builder or state garage or the like where they buy.

Try Stalite - I am having great results with this medium, it's very conducive to microbial growth, and I used 1/3rd stalite with 2/3 granite crush, like Jim mentioned, for bottom 2/3 of bed.  You'll need to wash/rinse any of the material regardless, which is the biggest part of the chore..   if you can get it cheap enough, stalite shouldn't be too much more than granite, but depends what market/where etc..

When I was working with AP I used cinders in my grow beds.

I agree with Jim, we have a landscaping buisness a few miles from me and They have "pink Lady" which is a granet/quartz medium in two sizes.  1/2" to 3/4" and 3/4" to 1" available at $27 per yard and some change.  Much better than pea gravle ($36 p/yard) which has limestone in it (now that's around here may not be the case in other locals).  Check out the landscaping, construction buisnesses and Dept. of Transportation road crews around you.

One more note on media. Landscape supply will probably double their cost so try and find their source as we did. The first source we found (river stone quarry) no longer sells direct to the public but we kept looking and found the granite quarry who couldn't be more helpful and are happy to sell direct. Just stay out of the way of the commercial giant haulers. Try and find a quiet time at the quarry by phone first. Don't gum up the works and they will be happy to help and you will pay wholesale.

Seeding right in the gravel is fine, you may just need to do something to make sure the seeds get enough moisture to germinate if they were too small to place down and the normal high water level.  but if it is raining there like it is here, then no worries.

If you have any issues with water quality or cycle up being slow you might also change your timing to flood for longer or more often and with the heat wave I hear is coming perhaps flooding more often might help keep the seedlings happier too as well as letting the bacteria get established a bit quicker.

Is it just me or are others having a hard time seeing the tittles here lately? Black and grey letters on dark blue backgrounds never cuts it. As group creator I thought I could change it here at least, but it must be controlled by the AP gods

I am having this nasty blue background too.  Wish I could turn off these colors....

Guys, that might be a comment you should send to Sylvia directly since she is probably the only one with control over the overall site theme appearance.  Seems about once a year she does a bit of a sight appearance overhaul and perhaps no one has complained about difficulty reading dark text on darker backgrounds.

ok picked up yard of pea gravel for 35 bucks vs 3.37 a bag at home depot. Have set up three of my systems one to go.

I know in my swimming pool I don't want algae to form but is it ok in the garden. plants are growing and the fish don't seem to mind.

However it is a little hard to see them in there due to the hue of the water.

Too much algae can rob your system of nutrients if you are trying to grow veggies.

Too much algae can also mess with pH.

It can also rob your system of dissolved oxygen overnight and leave your fish gasping for air before dawn.

And if the algae dies off suddenly it can really crash your system and cause overloaded bio-filters, clogged everything and quite a mess.  So while a small amount of algae is normally not an issue, water that looks like pea soup could well cause a major issue.  Block as much light from the water as you can, add as much aeration as you can and check screens, grates and filters often to avoid a major clog problem.

Once algae is decomposing in the grow beds (at least with media beds) it can help inhibit future algae blooms to an extent though it may do little against string or surface algae growth.

help I have caterpillars eating up my mustard greens what organic pest control can I use to get rid of them that will not harm my system. I have around 30 bluegill living in the tank and have just trained them to floating fish food.

Depending on the amount of caterpillars you have, best to hand pick them off and dispose of them.  Also depending on the type / species of caterpillars they are you may be able to feed them to your fish - waste not, want not.  Silvia bernstein states in her book that if the plants are small, you may even pull the plants, gentilly, and float them in the fish tank.  The fish will eat the bugs and you can replant them back in the grow beds after a while.  She did this with an aphid infestation she was contending with in her greenhouse.

bacillus thuringiensis products can be safely used on plants in aquaponics.  (Thuricide or Dipel dust)  They work against leaf eating caterpillars only and the caterpillars need to eat a little bit of it for it to work against them.  The product must be applied to the leaves of the plant and the pests need to eat some of it for it to work.

Had picking the caterpillars off is often very effective and doesn't require spraying the plants.

Hi all, been so busy building walls, floors, plumbing, electric, etc. while moving into our new house (because our daughter and fiance surprised us and moved down from Cape Cod and needed our cabin) that the AP system has been pretty much on auto pilot including auto feeders for some months now. Well I am happy to announce that the trout have reached harvest size and we had our first feast on our son's birthday on the 22nd.

After some attempts at fishing with worms that resulted in feeding the trout but little else I decided to take advantage of my 2" drain system and after placing a hand net over the ibc drain hole, and shutting off the fill hoses, I dropped the level to about a foot and while the one tank bio-filter still circulated I was able to use the hand net to select the 6 largest fish and voila: dinner. I then turned back on the 2 fill hoses (from the sump pump) and topped up the sump. Thought I should share this simple harvest method and I should also mention that the swirl/bio-filter shown in my photos has worked amazingly well at keeping the trout water just the way they like it: clear

Now it is time to get all the largest trout into one tank (from 2) and purchase more fingerlings. Also time to figure out a basket "safe house" as the trout were full of roe!! and it sure would be nice to raise our own. I will post this to the trout group as well as there might be some good suggestions there. We now feel like our AP project has come full circle. The flesh was a nice healthy pink and tasted amazing.

Awesome job Jim!  post pictures of the fish when you get a chance!

Congratulations to Nick Rizzo. He is our 100th member here on IBC.

Will do Matt. Busy day but I did get a few pics and will post.

"A message from Jonathan Paul Grenard to all members of IBC Aquaponics on Aquaponic Gardening!
I am using 7 IBC totes for my system"

Hi Jonathan and welcome to our IBC community. The best place to post to all members would be here so we can comment rather than an email to every member. Having said that tell us more about your system plan, your totes, like what was in them and how you are cleaning them, etc. Let us know how we can help.

I posted this elsewhere but it should be here as well. Buy used!

There is an availability of 275 gallon IBC totes in Ohio.  Need to order minimum of 10.  Anyone in WV/VA/MD/NC interested in going in on them?  $45.00 each plus shipping.  Email me at CraigSS@live.com

Hey I'm interested. I'll email you definitely.

I was going to set up a system using 3 totes that would give me 3 GB, one sump and one tote as a FT as soon as it warmed up a little. I have already cut them but now I just got 3 more totes! I would like to eat as much fish as I can. Any ideas on how to add all of this together into one system? Photos would help.

Hi DJ, here is a link to my current layout. I may be replacing that row of barrels with more IBCs as I have more room than I thought as we build that front S side wall. We have been raising Trout with great success and you can push the fish by adding biofilters as we have but more GBs full of veggies to consume the nutrients is a good thing.

I also have 5 full size 275 and 330gal fish tanks so I do not have to over crowd the fish. Click on my avatar at the left and ck out my photos to see how I cut my FTs and GBs.

NEVER too many totes. I have a 330 I just pu and I may replace one of the 275s with it or replace our 275 below grade sump and make GBs out of the 275. Too much waste using a 330 for 14" high GBs. Great for fish as I fill them to about 6" from the top for more water volume. NEVER too much water volume. The more the better in every way I can think of. Note I do not cut off the tops of the FTs but rather cut a lid, door, whatever, at the front leaving narrow hinges that have worked fine for 2 yrs now. Why cut off the tops just to have to build some sort of cover? You sound like you also have good IBC sources. This last one cost me 40.00.

We have enjoyed many Trout feasts now and they seem perfectly happy in the full size 330 gal IBCs. The newest fingerlings are growing at a much faster rate and I think that is because the system is very stable after 2 yrs. So this AP thing just keeps getting better and better. Dive in.

If you are new to aquaponics I would suggest to not get too carried away at first. One bed, one FT, gravity feed with bell syphon. Start cycling your bed right away while you wait for the weather. One step at a time. Plants, fish, baby fish, etc. and then expand as you learn. I tried to do too much at once and set things up all wrong. What looks good and works for someone else may not be good for you. While it's fun to make things and create projects I've found that sometimes to just go out and buy something is better (and cheaper) than making it out of PVC. I have lots of basic advice if you're interested.