A place to exchange information on breeding tilapia. How to set up tilapia breeding colonies. How to sex fish for breeding colonies. What foods are best for breeding pairs and fingerlings.
Keeping it fun seems to be a common thread in a majority of these discussions. Since I am just going to be introducing fish into my cycled up system this weekend, I am a little nervous and hope they will assimilate to my system easily, eat well and grow to a mature breeding age.
Thanks for all of the feedback and suggestions ya'll. I appreciate any and all experienced comments.
Bob, the answer depends on several things: What is your goal in food production? A natural/organic fish and veggie production would require you to only use all natural/organic commercial fish food or natural/organic fish food you make/grow yourself including mealworms, soldier fly larvae (or other various insects), duckweed, chopped veggies... If organic/natural isn't your goal then commercial fish food is easy and relatively inexpensive and you can supplement with just about anything the fish will eat.
I personally have chosen the organic/natural route and breed meal worms, grow duckweed, and chop/blend unused veggies and freeze them into ice cubes. My 200 tilapia seem to be growing and eating nicely. And the plants in the grow towers are doing well also. My fingerlings can't eat a whole mealworm yet, so they get put in the blender with the veggies and turned into frozen fish food cubes that melt when you place them in the water releasing small bits of yummy nutritious food into the water that quickly get gobbled up.
Bob, there are many answers to your question, and everyone has their own preferences. You need to decide what works best for you & your fish. Here are some more ideas:
Off-the-shelf:
We start our fry on the Tetramin flakes you get at Walmart. It's costly per pound compared to other foods, but they only eat it for a couple months, until they can manage small pellets. Since we breed the fish, this works best for us. The flakes are very easy to work with, crumble easily to fit their size, and have a nice, high, protein content.
Some (I do this sometimes, too) will grind pellets for the little ones. You can also simply feed the fry pellets if you want. The fry will munch on the pellets as they soften in the water. Or you can pre-soak them before giving them to the fish.
AS they get bigger, feed them 1/8" pellets, and increase pellet size as they grow. The protein content should be higher when they're young, and can be reduced as they get older. People seem to be successful with a variety of foods, including catfish and pond food. Purina is a common producer, but there are others, and most producers have an organic line. Tilapia do well on omnivour food.
Home-grown:
Obviously we're not starting out organically or home-grown, but we're working on it. I just traded a bunch of red wigglers for mealworms, and am starting my mealworm colony. In fact, I my first beetle emerged today! :) We'll be doing soldier flies soon, too, and we already raise duckweed. Our chickens eat all of these things as well, so the foods we raise and will be raising provide both fish and foul. Our goal is to do as Kenyon is doing, and raise all the food ourselves. (You rock, Kenyon!)
BTW, duckweed is good, but I don't know if they'll eat grass clippings. And, you have to make certain you're not putting any chemicals on anything you feed the fish. Pesticides can be deadly to them. I read a study that showed you can feed tilapia up to 1/2 their diet in dried duckweed without any problems. More than 1/2 and their growth slows down.
Awesome idea with the frozen treats Kenyon. Thanks for the great tip.
I prefer to stay organic and use duckweed but don't have any. Would love to grow some but don't know enough to get started. Or where to buy some duckweed locally in Miami?
How do you grow meal worms? Is there a link where I can learn?
Will the Tilapia fingerlings eat mosquito larve if any end up in my FT?
Guess I could start with rabbit pellets chopped up? Fresh grass clippings in a mesh bag and small insects?
Never apologize for asking questions! We all learn from them. :)
Check pond stores for duckweed. It's sold differently in different regions, though.
Tilapia do eat mosquito larva, but not always well enough. Mosquito fish can help.
I've noticed that our tilapia are picky about the kind of bugs they'll eat, so try things in small quantities and test them out.
Rabbit pellets as in rabbit food, or rabbit droppings? One guy on here (doggone, I can't remember his name...) feeds his fish rabbit food, which is mostly timothy grass. But that's different than the normal lawn grass. It sounds like he's doing very well with it.
As for droppings, you can feed tilapia rabbit and chicken droppings as well. But anytime you feed waste, you're taking a calculated risk of introducing bad bacteria and organisms. That said, many are doing so successfully.
While you're testing, you can get some organic dog/cat food to supplement until you have your home-grown food established. Lots of options! Whatever you decide, please share what you learn!
I'm the one who uses rabbit food, Sheri. And no need to grind it up, it loosens and fluffs within seconds of hitting the water. And I don't recomend rabbit food for young systems, or under-sized media systems. It produces tons of nitrogen, indeed it could be the sole fertilizer without the fish! Try a little, but fry prefer higher protein diets anyway. Tilapia are good eaters. It doesn't need to be ground up, like Sheri said, it will soften and they'll pick away at it until it's gone. Tilpaia will eat grass clippings, dog food, table scraps of most any kind, and definately mosquito larva. I'll try and dig out a clip of that
I used to keep a dozen five gallons buckets out back, and each day I'd pour the most mature mosquito larva through a fish net. The big ones would go to the fry tank, the little ones would go back in the bucket to get bigger. Feed the Mosquitos with a little rabbit food or leaves, or crass clippings in a bucket, anything to stimulate an algae bloom
Bob, I strongly advise getting a second blender or coffee grinder off Craigslist or from Goodwill. The marriage is more important than the fish, trust me.
If you buy the food, whatever you buy, look at the labels. Fry, around 40% protein & 10% fat works really well. Reduce as they age, down to 30+protein.
Hi all it's been a few years scene I have raised fish when I found out about Tilapia I just have to start again. Combining raising fish and gardening is such a natural fit.
Now the bad news. I'm in the most restrictive state in America (Oregon) at least when it comes to non native fish. Before I can even buy the Tilapia I must get a commercial license promise to keep them behind a locked gate get a vet to confirm that my fish are healthy then another permit to take them off my property.
(Like I’m going to take them for a walk)
If my tank is out side I have to keep a net over them so predators wont take one and drop it in a local stream (Local water temp 40 to 45 degrees) last time I checked Predators eat what they catch and it just goes on and on.
Fred, Have you considered any other species that is suited to the Oregonean environment? In AZ tilapia is a good fit because of our extreme temps, but the cooler Oregon temps opens the door to other species. And...there might be a fish out there that you could take for a walk without upsetting your big brother.
The reason I wanted to go with Tilapia was to sell the fingerlings on ebay & use some of the adults as a food source. I'm trying to retire and still need some extra income to pay the bills. As for other fish anything native to Oregon (Blue gill, bass, crappy or perch) All fall under Fish & Game regulations with its own little paper work hell to explore. What I don’t under stand is If I just started raising Gold fish (That Can! Live in our rivers and lakes)
that would be OK and have no requirements to follow.
About 12 years ago we built a back yard decorative pond, 20 ft. across & 4 ft deep We bought some feeder gold fish to put in it those guys are now almost a foot long and have been spawning for at least 10 years once a year we have to remove most of the smaller ones just to keep the pond from getting over populated. Allowing Gold fish that can & do thrive in the wild and Not allowing Tilapia that would certainly die is just Inviro kookery.
Rabbit food: several years ago my daughter was raising a rabbit for 4-H we found Alfalfa pellets at the grocery store sold as odor control kitty litter. The ingredient label guaranteed it to be 100% Alfalfa with no chemicals or additives. We fed this half price alternative to the rabbet for years the rabbit did great and won a first place ribbon in 4 H
I agree about the lack of logic with anti-tilapia rules. I'll look up Oregon regs and see if I can help you bend them.
Rabbit food is pretty cheap, like $12 per $50 lb bag, and I would guess it's even cheaper everywhere else than coastal Cali. Goo tip about that alfalfa. And on a completely non-fish note, pure alfalfa is high in calcium, and is said to eventually give rabbits bone spurs. Rabbit hay is a mix of Timothy, alfalfa, and others.
Fred, if you want to raise something you can sell for money, the Koi and goldfish will probably bring much more money without the red-tape, fees, permits, regulations, and risk of huge fines that the tilapia apparently bring. And many people do eat carp ya know.
I don’t think your aware of just how lucrative the Tilapia fingerling trade can be. Its easy to raise 2 to 5,000 every month and sell them to small growers for .75 to 1.25 each. even if you go with the conservative number that's $2,000 per month. And you can eat the ones that don't want to spawn. As for koi that market is already over run in my area.
Many years ago I raised Tropical fish and sold them to pet stores, back then the sell price was .05 to .10 ea. I was grossing $100 to $150 a month.
That was years ago, Assuming I can get through the State paper work just so I can start. My plan is to build 3 - 750 gal tanks for spawning then raise the fingerlings in doors in my shop in smaller tanks I'm still looking for the best size.
Fred, my condolences to you regarding your regulatory issues. Logic isn't always involved. Actually, logic is rarely involved. LOL!
Anyway, you'll need some good heaters up there. Tilapia breed best around 85 degrees, and depending on the type of tilapia, it's risky to go below 60. And that's just for survival. Growth is best in the 80s.
I raise Nile, but they're the most likely to be banned, so if you're going to sell cross-country, have you thought about which ones you'll be breeding?
I have purchased tilapia from Sarah and Kellen many times over the last three or four years. Their fish are great and they've been extremely helpful any time I've had a question or system issue.
I am not an expert, just experienced.
Keep it simple. Start with 20-40 tilapia. Fingerlings are best they can learn to adapt to the way you do things. If you use good feed and feed 4-6 times a day, you can start eating at about the 6 mos time frame. If all goes well, then start thinking about breeding. I had a lot of encouragement and helpful discussions, before I started breeding. I am not competition to anyone. I do think it is alot easier to just buy fish from Sarah at http://tilapiasource.com
But I will be off the grid next year. So I want to know how to do.
Learning about Tilapia before I really get into it I plan to get a small tank more in the hobby range to get familiar with how to take care of them well I say hobby (150 gal) as I understand it the best ones for what I'm thinking about doing would be a hybrid male blue and female Nile is what I’ve been told would work the best.
I've heard that about Blue/Nile, but there's a lot of Blue/Nile hybrids in both sexes to be found. The Hornorum, mixed with Blue, Nile, or Mozambique are, from what I understand, nearly all male. (Whatever "nearly all" means.) And they're legal in a number of states. But I've also read that the Hornorum is very aggressive, even in tilapia terms.
one of my colonies is homorum male and mozambique females.
I see the male as very mellow, but he is 2 years old.. he is the oldest fish that I have..
He has not made a nest, but the eggs hatched before I new anyone was ready. that is the colony that has the sump. the frys go into the sump before I can see them. So, now I monitor the sump for activity.
Alright, Fred. I found your loophole. According to Oregon F&G regs, Div 056, tilapia are NOT prohibited. Btw, what a poorly written set of regs, and I thought California was bad. So, Oregon classes every animal including fish into three classes; Prohibited, Not-Controlled, and Controlled. Tilapia are very clearly not prohibited. On page 17, last item in Not-Controlled section; "(5) non-controlled fish: Aquaria Fish & Live Food Fish, all species". All good there for all tilapia, so long as they're in your aquarium. The Controlled section makes special rules for OUTDOOR raising in ponds of tilapia, but only o. mossambicus and o. nilitocus, and makes no mention or restriction of blues or hornorum. That is a real big mistake on Oregon's part, since blues pose the most threat of actually surviving. But, as written, you can raise all tilapia in Aquaria, and blues and hornorum in outdoor ponds as far as the law is concerned. Perhaps Kellen can enlighten us as to the male ratio when crossing blues and hornies.
Sheri, only the first generation crosses of pure strain male hornorum to pure strain female niles, mossies, and blues are all male. That first gen cross is NOT sterile, but simply all male. If allowed to breed back to any female, the second gen will likely be mostly male, but certainly not all male. My hornorum male is absolutely mellow, and has never harassed the ladies. Can't speak for all of them, but mine is a gentleman.
I have almost pure whites, almost pure reds, pure blues and my mixes. I have found the White Niles the hardest on the ladies. As with Jon Parr, that is my experience, I am not an expert, only experienced. Kellen is the expert.
Thanks Jon that's what I got out of the reg's Everything looks like it was made to protect the salmon fisheries then they just added Tilapia to the list with no thought of the survivability of a tropical fish in Oregon’s waters. The problem with skirting the reg's In Oregon is the fish and game strictly enforce every thing, a short time ago the state police raided several Tilapia suppliers confiscated there stock and handed out fines. Before I commit to the expense of setting up a spawning operation I need to make sure everything will pass the goofy regulations.
This is a good one for showing just how nuts things are getting.
I can set up a Medical Marijuana grow cheaper and with less regulation And if I get caught growing more then I am allowed the fine is less then raising fish. Maybe I should just grow Pot?
Randall, I'm so sorry you had a bad experience like that!
You might be able to help your fish by raising the temperatures, too. Heat speeds up the life cycle of the parasites. Between salt and heat, you should be able to eliminate the parasitic issues. I can't remember the temps to use, but you want to push it gradually up. Not so high as to harm the fish, though. You can go up to 95 degrees, I believe, but watch it closely.
I would continue to feed them as long as they're eating well. Don't leave any extra food in the tank, though, and continue water changes as needed. Tilapia can handle a high salt level, so that's to your favor in dealing with parasites. It can play havoc with plants, though.
If you have other kinds of ailments, it can be difficult. There are antibiotics you can get, but be very careful about what you give them if you plan on eating them some day, and you don't want the meds to get into any plants, so I would not be treating them in my AP system.
problem with giving fish antibiotics is that the antibiotics will kill the bio-filter and can wind up in the plants so it is best to do that kind of treatment in a hospital tank away from your real aquaponics.
I'm glad it's slowing down. The red gills can be a parasite or a bacterial infection. The missing body parts could be due to fighting, or being eaten after death, which isn't good if they're sick. Watch them closely and pull any dead or dying ones out right away.
Can anyone tell me what kind of talapia this one is?
I caught it at a fish farm and put it in my mother in laws tank with 2 others not this colour, it bullied the others to to the point I had to remove them.
Really David? There are many sources for pure strain tilapia. I have pure strain mossambicus and aureus, and a male hornorum. Really the only pure strain difficult to find is o. hornorum, and they are available to us (for a premium) as males only so that the few breeders (kellen is one if them) can maintain control.
mossambicus.. is that that most would go with? It is what it sort of looks like with the yellow in the tail and being pink, it's the black that confused me.....and it does look like some albino too...
Assuming Kellen's strains are pure, and I have no reason to doubt that they are, and assuming he has the only pure strains in the world (which is ludicrous) and Kellen sells to thousands of folks, who in turn breed and sell to many more folks, then you have thousands, maybe tens or hundreds of thousands, of sources of pure strain tilapia. And that doesn't consider any other breeders who may and certainly do also have pure strains. Who said anything about wild strains?
If supposed pure strains breed true, and more importantly if pure parents are crossed to produce predictable traits in offspring (ie all male), then chances are they are pure (or pure enough). Not that is really all that important. I just think it is an absurd claim that Kellen's are the only pure in the world. Did kellen capture his broodstock from Africa a hundred years ago from their native waters before man cross planted them? Kellen, chime in if you're out there.
Ah well. Sorry for the rant. No offense, David, or Kellen.
Greetings from Big Sand Lake in Park Rapids, MN! We are on our annual family vacation this week, so I apologize if it takes me a bit longer than usual to respond to questions. The chase for big Walleye and splashing around the beach with the twins keeps me away from the computer throughout most of the day right now. :)
I'll get something typed up for you guys in a bit. :)
More often than not, folks claiming they're selling "pure" tilapia, are basing that off of the claims of the people they bought them from. That becomes a pretty suspect way of proving purity (depending on source), and becomes increasingly suspect as the fish continue to pass from person to person, with potential genetic contamination possible at each stop. It's quite costly to have them genetically tested, far beyond the financial capabilities of anyone but the largest operations. Additionally, there are two important differences in "pure". You have pure SPECIES and pure STRAIN. Pure SPECIES is the most strict, meaning they are pure to their species with no detectable impurities. There are only a small handful of truly pure SPECIES food fish tilapia in the entire world and only three, possibly four in the US. There are countless pure strains of course.
So how can a backyard grower be sure they're actually getting what they're paying for? Well, simple answer, they really can't be 100% sure, without spending thousands of dollars to verify genetic purity on likely less than $150 worth of fish. Obviously, that just wouldn't be practical. The best thing to do is buy only from legitimate, inspected hatcheries who have solid reputations in the industry/community. These operations have invested large sums of money in their businesses, have quality proven fish stock they've worked with for years, and they are intent on delivering a quality product and making customers happy. Basement operations and the like are best avoided, and it's not just due to the inability to really trust what you're getting from a purity/quality perspective, but also, and really much more important, the inability to have any verifiable knowledge that the fish are disease free.
A truly legitimate fish hatchery will be USDA inspected, state inspected and freely provide all backing documentation to prove it when asked. Many people are unaware that every single state in the US requires official fish health inspections for fish being imported into their state. Many of the states require additional documentation, labs or inspections beyond the "norm" too. The responsibility of making sure that the fish being imported are being done so in full compliance with state requirements/laws falls solely on the importer (customer). Fines and penalties vary from state to state, but are typically quite harsh. Plus, the importer's risk does not end once the fish are in hand. At any time, a state DNR or Conservation agent could request proof of purchase and source, and even has the right to request proof of your source's fish health inspection. If you don't have that, they can destroy your fish on the spot (typically by administering a lethal application of rotenone to your tank), send you the bill for doing so, and then seek further legal action against you.
How do I know a hatchery has the proper fish health inspections done? Ask them. Really, they should have ZERO reservations in providing you all the fish health inspection information you need. They pay lots of money for it and work very hard for it, so they really have no reason not to want to flaunt it (they should be PROUD of it), assuming it's disease free of course.
White Brook Tilapia Farm (www.tilapiasource.com) participates in the USDA-APHIS fish health inspection program. It's the most thorough and respected disease inspection service in the US, and represents a considerable investment with regard to our overall operating budget. We are also inspected by the state of Missouri and adhere to their very strict standards. Inspections are extremely expensive, and we must operate in a very specific fashion for compliance. This requires professional grade equipment and facilities with well-trained knowledgeable staff, as well as an adherence to very strict operational protocol.
Thanks, Kellen. I always enjoy your insight and experience. Have you had your tilapia genetically tested for species purity? Enjoy your vacation. Don't be shy to share some pics of those Walleyes :)
Bob Vento
Keeping it fun seems to be a common thread in a majority of these discussions. Since I am just going to be introducing fish into my cycled up system this weekend, I am a little nervous and hope they will assimilate to my system easily, eat well and grow to a mature breeding age.
Thanks for all of the feedback and suggestions ya'll. I appreciate any and all experienced comments.
Regards,
Bob
May 30, 2012
Bob Vento
So what should I be feeding my small fingerlings to grow them out?
Can I mix in some other items that they will eat also i.e. fresh grass clippings, duckweed, etc.
Jun 1, 2012
Kenyon James Hopkins
Bob, the answer depends on several things:
What is your goal in food production? A natural/organic fish and veggie production would require you to only use all natural/organic commercial fish food or natural/organic fish food you make/grow yourself including mealworms, soldier fly larvae (or other various insects), duckweed, chopped veggies... If organic/natural isn't your goal then commercial fish food is easy and relatively inexpensive and you can supplement with just about anything the fish will eat.
I personally have chosen the organic/natural route and breed meal worms, grow duckweed, and chop/blend unused veggies and freeze them into ice cubes. My 200 tilapia seem to be growing and eating nicely. And the plants in the grow towers are doing well also. My fingerlings can't eat a whole mealworm yet, so they get put in the blender with the veggies and turned into frozen fish food cubes that melt when you place them in the water releasing small bits of yummy nutritious food into the water that quickly get gobbled up.
Jun 1, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
Bob, there are many answers to your question, and everyone has their own preferences. You need to decide what works best for you & your fish. Here are some more ideas:
Off-the-shelf:
We start our fry on the Tetramin flakes you get at Walmart. It's costly per pound compared to other foods, but they only eat it for a couple months, until they can manage small pellets. Since we breed the fish, this works best for us. The flakes are very easy to work with, crumble easily to fit their size, and have a nice, high, protein content.
Some (I do this sometimes, too) will grind pellets for the little ones. You can also simply feed the fry pellets if you want. The fry will munch on the pellets as they soften in the water. Or you can pre-soak them before giving them to the fish.
AS they get bigger, feed them 1/8" pellets, and increase pellet size as they grow. The protein content should be higher when they're young, and can be reduced as they get older. People seem to be successful with a variety of foods, including catfish and pond food. Purina is a common producer, but there are others, and most producers have an organic line. Tilapia do well on omnivour food.
Home-grown:
Obviously we're not starting out organically or home-grown, but we're working on it. I just traded a bunch of red wigglers for mealworms, and am starting my mealworm colony. In fact, I my first beetle emerged today! :) We'll be doing soldier flies soon, too, and we already raise duckweed. Our chickens eat all of these things as well, so the foods we raise and will be raising provide both fish and foul. Our goal is to do as Kenyon is doing, and raise all the food ourselves. (You rock, Kenyon!)
BTW, duckweed is good, but I don't know if they'll eat grass clippings. And, you have to make certain you're not putting any chemicals on anything you feed the fish. Pesticides can be deadly to them. I read a study that showed you can feed tilapia up to 1/2 their diet in dried duckweed without any problems. More than 1/2 and their growth slows down.
Jun 1, 2012
Bob Vento
Awesome idea with the frozen treats Kenyon. Thanks for the great tip.
I prefer to stay organic and use duckweed but don't have any.
Would love to grow some but don't know enough to get started.
Or where to buy some duckweed locally in Miami?
How do you grow meal worms? Is there a link where I can learn?
Will the Tilapia fingerlings eat mosquito larve if any end up in my FT?
Guess I could start with rabbit pellets chopped up? Fresh grass clippings in a mesh bag and small insects?
Gosh ... Sorry for so many questions.
Regards,
Bob
Jun 1, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
Never apologize for asking questions! We all learn from them. :)
Check pond stores for duckweed. It's sold differently in different regions, though.
Tilapia do eat mosquito larva, but not always well enough. Mosquito fish can help.
I've noticed that our tilapia are picky about the kind of bugs they'll eat, so try things in small quantities and test them out.
Rabbit pellets as in rabbit food, or rabbit droppings? One guy on here (doggone, I can't remember his name...) feeds his fish rabbit food, which is mostly timothy grass. But that's different than the normal lawn grass. It sounds like he's doing very well with it.
As for droppings, you can feed tilapia rabbit and chicken droppings as well. But anytime you feed waste, you're taking a calculated risk of introducing bad bacteria and organisms. That said, many are doing so successfully.
While you're testing, you can get some organic dog/cat food to supplement until you have your home-grown food established. Lots of options! Whatever you decide, please share what you learn!
Jun 1, 2012
Bob Vento
Oh My ... rabbit food not droppings LOL
What kind of organic dog/cat food? I am assuming dry food? Guess I should grind it up for the fingerlings? Same with the rabbit food.
Wonder if my wife will let me use the blender?
Regards,
Bob
Jun 1, 2012
Jon Parr
Jun 1, 2012
Jon Parr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vlvscNYQE&feature=youtube_gdat...
I used to keep a dozen five gallons buckets out back, and each day I'd pour the most mature mosquito larva through a fish net. The big ones would go to the fry tank, the little ones would go back in the bucket to get bigger. Feed the Mosquitos with a little rabbit food or leaves, or crass clippings in a bucket, anything to stimulate an algae bloom
Jun 1, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
Thank you, Jon! My great memory is very short. :)
Bob, I strongly advise getting a second blender or coffee grinder off Craigslist or from Goodwill. The marriage is more important than the fish, trust me.
If you buy the food, whatever you buy, look at the labels. Fry, around 40% protein & 10% fat works really well. Reduce as they age, down to 30+protein.
Jun 1, 2012
Fred Countryman
Hi all it's been a few years scene I have raised fish when I found out about Tilapia I just have to start again. Combining raising fish and gardening is such a natural fit.
Now the bad news. I'm in the most restrictive state in America (Oregon) at least when it comes to non native fish. Before I can even buy the Tilapia I must get a commercial license promise to keep them behind a locked gate get a vet to confirm that my fish are healthy then another permit to take them off my property.
(Like I’m going to take them for a walk)
If my tank is out side I have to keep a net over them so predators wont take one and drop it in a local stream (Local water temp 40 to 45 degrees) last time I checked Predators eat what they catch and it just goes on and on.
Now I know where the saying
Government gone wild comes from.
Wish me luck.
Jun 4, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
Fred, Have you considered any other species that is suited to the Oregonean environment? In AZ tilapia is a good fit because of our extreme temps, but the cooler Oregon temps opens the door to other species. And...there might be a fish out there that you could take for a walk without upsetting your big brother.
Jun 4, 2012
Fred Countryman
Hi Sheri
The reason I wanted to go with Tilapia was to sell the fingerlings on ebay & use some of the adults as a food source. I'm trying to retire and still need some extra income to pay the bills. As for other fish anything native to Oregon (Blue gill, bass, crappy or perch) All fall under Fish & Game regulations with its own little paper work hell to explore. What I don’t under stand is If I just started raising Gold fish (That Can! Live in our rivers and lakes)
that would be OK and have no requirements to follow.
About 12 years ago we built a back yard decorative pond, 20 ft. across & 4 ft deep We bought some feeder gold fish to put in it those guys are now almost a foot long and have been spawning for at least 10 years once a year we have to remove most of the smaller ones just to keep the pond from getting over populated. Allowing Gold fish that can & do thrive in the wild and Not allowing Tilapia that would certainly die is just Inviro kookery.
I think I see a Don keyhotey
wind mill in my future.
Jun 5, 2012
Fred Countryman
Rabbit food: several years ago my daughter was raising a rabbit for 4-H we found Alfalfa pellets at the grocery store sold as odor control kitty litter. The ingredient label guaranteed it to be 100% Alfalfa with no chemicals or additives. We fed this half price alternative to the rabbet for years the rabbit did great and won a first place ribbon in 4 H
Jun 6, 2012
Jon Parr
Rabbit food is pretty cheap, like $12 per $50 lb bag, and I would guess it's even cheaper everywhere else than coastal Cali. Goo tip about that alfalfa. And on a completely non-fish note, pure alfalfa is high in calcium, and is said to eventually give rabbits bone spurs. Rabbit hay is a mix of Timothy, alfalfa, and others.
Jun 6, 2012
Jon Parr
Jun 6, 2012
TCLynx
Fred, if you want to raise something you can sell for money, the Koi and goldfish will probably bring much more money without the red-tape, fees, permits, regulations, and risk of huge fines that the tilapia apparently bring. And many people do eat carp ya know.
Jun 7, 2012
Fred Countryman
Eating carp. YUCK. Way to Fishy, Oily and boney.
I don’t think your aware of just how lucrative the Tilapia fingerling trade can be. Its easy to raise 2 to 5,000 every month and sell them to small growers for .75 to 1.25 each. even if you go with the conservative number that's $2,000 per month. And you can eat the ones that don't want to spawn. As for koi that market is already over run in my area.
Many years ago I raised Tropical fish and sold them to pet stores, back then the sell price was .05 to .10 ea. I was grossing $100 to $150 a month.
Jun 7, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
Fred,
You must have a good system.
Jun 7, 2012
Fred Countryman
Had a good system.
That was years ago, Assuming I can get through the State paper work just so I can start. My plan is to build 3 - 750 gal tanks for spawning then raise the fingerlings in doors in my shop in smaller tanks I'm still looking for the best size.
Jun 7, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
Fred, my condolences to you regarding your regulatory issues. Logic isn't always involved. Actually, logic is rarely involved. LOL!
Anyway, you'll need some good heaters up there. Tilapia breed best around 85 degrees, and depending on the type of tilapia, it's risky to go below 60. And that's just for survival. Growth is best in the 80s.
I raise Nile, but they're the most likely to be banned, so if you're going to sell cross-country, have you thought about which ones you'll be breeding?
Jun 7, 2012
Stephanie Grim
Hi Dave,
I have purchased tilapia from Sarah and Kellen many times over the last three or four years. Their fish are great and they've been extremely helpful any time I've had a question or system issue.
Jun 8, 2012
Fred Countryman
Thanks Sheri I'm still
Learning about Tilapia before I really get into it I plan to get a small tank more in the hobby range to get familiar with how to take care of them well I say hobby (150 gal) as I understand it the best ones for what I'm thinking about doing would be a hybrid male blue and female Nile is what I’ve been told would work the best.
With an 80 % mail offspring rate.
Jun 8, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
I've heard that about Blue/Nile, but there's a lot of Blue/Nile hybrids in both sexes to be found. The Hornorum, mixed with Blue, Nile, or Mozambique are, from what I understand, nearly all male. (Whatever "nearly all" means.) And they're legal in a number of states. But I've also read that the Hornorum is very aggressive, even in tilapia terms.
It's a fun adventure.Good luck to you!
Jun 8, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
one of my colonies is homorum male and mozambique females.
I see the male as very mellow, but he is 2 years old.. he is the oldest fish that I have..
He has not made a nest, but the eggs hatched before I new anyone was ready. that is the colony that has the sump. the frys go into the sump before I can see them. So, now I monitor the sump for activity.
really, I like this system and colony.
Jun 8, 2012
Jon Parr
Jun 9, 2012
Jon Parr
Jun 9, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
I have almost pure whites, almost pure reds, pure blues and my mixes. I have found the White Niles the hardest on the ladies. As with Jon Parr, that is my experience, I am not an expert, only experienced. Kellen is the expert.
Jun 9, 2012
Fred Countryman
Thanks Jon that's what I got out of the reg's Everything looks like it was made to protect the salmon fisheries then they just added Tilapia to the list with no thought of the survivability of a tropical fish in Oregon’s waters. The problem with skirting the reg's In Oregon is the fish and game strictly enforce every thing, a short time ago the state police raided several Tilapia suppliers confiscated there stock and handed out fines. Before I commit to the expense of setting up a spawning operation I need to make sure everything will pass the goofy regulations.
Jun 10, 2012
Fred Countryman
This is a good one for showing just how nuts things are getting.
I can set up a Medical Marijuana grow cheaper and with less regulation And if I get caught growing more then I am allowed the fine is less then raising fish. Maybe I should just grow Pot?
Jun 10, 2012
TCLynx
Fred, that all depends on if the Feds get involved or not.
Jun 10, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
I feel your pain. seems breeding is not for the backyard gardener. My opinion.
I have had the best fish from http://tilapiasource.com/
Jul 16, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
Randall, I'm so sorry you had a bad experience like that!
You might be able to help your fish by raising the temperatures, too. Heat speeds up the life cycle of the parasites. Between salt and heat, you should be able to eliminate the parasitic issues. I can't remember the temps to use, but you want to push it gradually up. Not so high as to harm the fish, though. You can go up to 95 degrees, I believe, but watch it closely.
I would continue to feed them as long as they're eating well. Don't leave any extra food in the tank, though, and continue water changes as needed. Tilapia can handle a high salt level, so that's to your favor in dealing with parasites. It can play havoc with plants, though.
If you have other kinds of ailments, it can be difficult. There are antibiotics you can get, but be very careful about what you give them if you plan on eating them some day, and you don't want the meds to get into any plants, so I would not be treating them in my AP system.
Jul 16, 2012
TCLynx
problem with giving fish antibiotics is that the antibiotics will kill the bio-filter and can wind up in the plants so it is best to do that kind of treatment in a hospital tank away from your real aquaponics.
Jul 17, 2012
Sheri Schmeckpeper
I'm glad it's slowing down. The red gills can be a parasite or a bacterial infection. The missing body parts could be due to fighting, or being eaten after death, which isn't good if they're sick. Watch them closely and pull any dead or dying ones out right away.
Jul 18, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
Randall,
thank you for sharing your experience.
The problem with this site is some people do not have experiences. They read part of one article and they are transformed into experts.
Jul 18, 2012
Hydroponics Curacao
What pond size should I get for growing tilapias in?
Jul 30, 2012
Stuart Polkinghorne
Can anyone tell me what kind of talapia this one is?
I caught it at a fish farm and put it in my mother in laws tank with 2 others not this colour, it bullied the others to to the point I had to remove them.
It's about 5 inch long.
Aug 6, 2012
Bob Campbell
Those colors are a gang symbol and this looks like an albino from the Dantes Albino gang. They have been know to chase other fish just for fun and are wanted for harassment in 14 tanks. Don't mess with these fish or they will put a contract out on you!
Sorry I'm just having fun. It sorta looks like an albino, It's definitely got the tillapia shape, but it looks like it lost is color. Poor thing - it's not going to be very attractive during mating.
Aug 6, 2012
Annika Wallace
It resembles a red. We did some research and that is what it looks like is used for the all male hybrid
Aug 6, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
I thought all tilapia are mix-breeds. the only pure bloods that I know are Sara and Kellen's Blues.I have a few from my colony.
Aug 6, 2012
Jon Parr
Aug 6, 2012
Stuart Polkinghorne
mossambicus.. is that that most would go with? It is what it sort of looks like with the yellow in the tail and being pink, it's the black that confused me.....and it does look like some albino too...
Aug 6, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
I am aware that many claims are made during the sales process.
If you want to believe the claims on the internet.. that is up to you.
I prefer to be skeptical. To me it is not logical to think that wild fish are pure
Aug 6, 2012
Jon Parr
If supposed pure strains breed true, and more importantly if pure parents are crossed to produce predictable traits in offspring (ie all male), then chances are they are pure (or pure enough). Not that is really all that important. I just think it is an absurd claim that Kellen's are the only pure in the world. Did kellen capture his broodstock from Africa a hundred years ago from their native waters before man cross planted them? Kellen, chime in if you're out there.
Ah well. Sorry for the rant. No offense, David, or Kellen.
Aug 6, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
Sorry to have upset you
Aug 6, 2012
Kellen Weissenbach
Greetings from Big Sand Lake in Park Rapids, MN! We are on our annual family vacation this week, so I apologize if it takes me a bit longer than usual to respond to questions. The chase for big Walleye and splashing around the beach with the twins keeps me away from the computer throughout most of the day right now.
:)
I'll get something typed up for you guys in a bit. :)
Aug 8, 2012
Kellen Weissenbach
More often than not, folks claiming they're selling "pure" tilapia, are basing that off of the claims of the people they bought them from. That becomes a pretty suspect way of proving purity (depending on source), and becomes increasingly suspect as the fish continue to pass from person to person, with potential genetic contamination possible at each stop. It's quite costly to have them genetically tested, far beyond the financial capabilities of anyone but the largest operations. Additionally, there are two important differences in "pure". You have pure SPECIES and pure STRAIN. Pure SPECIES is the most strict, meaning they are pure to their species with no detectable impurities. There are only a small handful of truly pure SPECIES food fish tilapia in the entire world and only three, possibly four in the US. There are countless pure strains of course.
So how can a backyard grower be sure they're actually getting what they're paying for? Well, simple answer, they really can't be 100% sure, without spending thousands of dollars to verify genetic purity on likely less than $150 worth of fish. Obviously, that just wouldn't be practical. The best thing to do is buy only from legitimate, inspected hatcheries who have solid reputations in the industry/community. These operations have invested large sums of money in their businesses, have quality proven fish stock they've worked with for years, and they are intent on delivering a quality product and making customers happy. Basement operations and the like are best avoided, and it's not just due to the inability to really trust what you're getting from a purity/quality perspective, but also, and really much more important, the inability to have any verifiable knowledge that the fish are disease free.
A truly legitimate fish hatchery will be USDA inspected, state inspected and freely provide all backing documentation to prove it when asked. Many people are unaware that every single state in the US requires official fish health inspections for fish being imported into their state. Many of the states require additional documentation, labs or inspections beyond the "norm" too. The responsibility of making sure that the fish being imported are being done so in full compliance with state requirements/laws falls solely on the importer (customer). Fines and penalties vary from state to state, but are typically quite harsh. Plus, the importer's risk does not end once the fish are in hand. At any time, a state DNR or Conservation agent could request proof of purchase and source, and even has the right to request proof of your source's fish health inspection. If you don't have that, they can destroy your fish on the spot (typically by administering a lethal application of rotenone to your tank), send you the bill for doing so, and then seek further legal action against you.
How do I know a hatchery has the proper fish health inspections done? Ask them. Really, they should have ZERO reservations in providing you all the fish health inspection information you need. They pay lots of money for it and work very hard for it, so they really have no reason not to want to flaunt it (they should be PROUD of it), assuming it's disease free of course.
White Brook Tilapia Farm (www.tilapiasource.com) participates in the USDA-APHIS fish health inspection program. It's the most thorough and respected disease inspection service in the US, and represents a considerable investment with regard to our overall operating budget. We are also inspected by the state of Missouri and adhere to their very strict standards. Inspections are extremely expensive, and we must operate in a very specific fashion for compliance. This requires professional grade equipment and facilities with well-trained knowledgeable staff, as well as an adherence to very strict operational protocol.
Aug 8, 2012
Jon Parr
Aug 8, 2012
Dave & Yvonne Story
If I recall correctly, only the blues were tested and certified pure.
But let's see what Kellen has to say.
will not be the first time I am wrong.
my taster does not know the difference.. and my plants don't care
Aug 8, 2012