rubbermaid stock tanks not NSF approved

I hope that you are joking, but somehow I don't think that you are... Do you have any written correspondence from the company, or anything from them confirming that their stock tanks may leach Bisphenal A? This would be potentially really bad.

Canada and the E.U has already banned their use in many products, I know the U.S is pretty slow with come around to such things (understandable since Commercial Interests will usually fight tooth, nail and campaign contribution to claim otherwise), but for any normal person who got into AP in part for reasons of food security/safety/healthy food for their Families...

I hope you or someone can confirm or deny this Rubbermaid stock tank/BPA claim, and that the topic doesn't just get "swept under the mental rug by Aquapons because it's "uncomfortable" since Rubbermaid products are already wide spread use in aquaponics. 

BPA.. has become the latest buzz-word boogie-man...

There are definite concerns for sure.... like most canned goods, and bottle products... that have a plastic seal on the inner bottom and top surfaces.... like pulped baby food jars...

I wouldn't be too worried about a rubbermaid fish tank... in relation to other more serious implications...

And IV tubing, and baby bottle nipples...the Dutch banned sex toys made with the stuff as well...and a whole host of things...

But if people are already choosing NOT to use flexible PVC because of the pthalates, maybe some of those people would like to KNOW (BPA/Rubbermaid) so that they can either choose to, or choose not to, use those types of materials in a home food production setting?

There is much research being and having been done that may warrant a bit of concern...IMO

Pthalates, of one kind or another are used in the products below... and some are banned (DEP)... others , like those contained in nail polish remover... aren't ...

However, at least here in Australia... most PVC piping does not contain pthalates as "plasticiser".... only the flexible conduits do...

Oops.. don't know what happened to the list... and can't "edit"....

I really dislike the lack of formatting on this "ning"...

Here it is again... hopefully...

Grrr...

I think childrens toys and hospital equipment are probably the biggies...but kids/toddlers have been isolated through blood testing as one of the target groups with elevated levels...because they have a tendency to stick things in their mouths that they aren't supposed to...shampoo bottles etc...

I'm sure that you can appreciate why such a substance would tend to leach out over time, seeing how there is no covelant bond between the plasticizer and the plastic that it is mixed with.

My understanding has been that the rigid PVC pipes that we all use contains no such substances?

Non-toxic plasticizers exist, but they would drive up product cost (by an average of a couple of whole U.S cents per product) so industry in America has not opted to voluntarily phase out their use, and the government will unlikely ever make them. Unlike in a host of other countries where consumer protection mechanisms aren't implemented depending soley (it would seem) on how that will impact commercial industry (or at least less so) with no actual regard for the consumer or his/her safety.   

Though they are apparently quick to adopt a host of new "Food Safety" laws, that of course only benefit large corporate interests. Big surprise there.

Vlad! I understand that BPA is a common chemical, that is found in alot of materials, and found in a high % of the populations blood? However contact regarding this issue was Michelle D, Product resource support. TC teck support, 3124. Valley Ave. Winchester VA. 22601, Toll free # 800-347-9800.  Maybe she can shed more light on this issue! I'm just stating what I was told, Not NSF approved and no other certifications, only to be used for intended purpose, not for humam consumption!

I wrote an email to Rubbermaid concerning the 100 and 50 gallon commercial stock tanks and their suitability for human consumption use and the leaching of chemicals. The following is the reply I received today:

Service Account CUSTSERV, RCP custserv@rubbermaidcommercial.com	08:38 (3 hours ago)
to me

Ok, so that really doesn't say anything. Of course they're not going to make any claims when it comes to "being used for anything other than its intended use". What company in there right mind would?

But does this necessarily mean that they contain BPA or other pthalates that will leach? I'm neither saying that they do nor, don't. But if this is all that the OP has too go on...that's pretty shaky.

I don't use any of these stock tanks, so it really doesn't effect me personally, but saying that they will leach BPA or other chemicals just because the company says they should be used other than how they're intended is just apples and oranges (even if it turns out to be true). Sorry.

Maybe someone should shoot off an e-mail (and exclude any human consumption crap), and just ask "are these stock tanks manufactured using BPA or other pthalates, and if so which one(s).

I agree with you Vlad.

See my email to Rubbermaid:

I am a member of Aquaponic Gardening, a community website for aquaponics. A discussion arose about the leaching of toxic chemicals from your Rubbermaid 100-50 gallon containers which many members use in the aquaponics system.

"rubbermaid stock tanks not NSF approved

I have been locking into aquaponics, and have seen people online suggesting using rubbermaid stock tanks! checked with manufacturer tanks are not approved for human consumption. may leach chemicals BPA, and others into water. I don't understand it's O.K. for your livestock but not you! I dont think they should be using it for livestock! afterall don"t we eat the livestock?

Added by Steven Chappell on March 13, 2012 at 4:04pm — 9 Comments

see website:

http://aquaponicscommunity.com/profiles/blog/list

Please set the record straight for me on the use of rubbermaid stock tanks in aquaponics for human consumption regarding the leaching of chemicals.

Thank you.

Robert Vockrodt

We got that BPA in there, but no direct response.

Their email is custserv@rubbermaidcommercial.com

However, customer service will only give the scripted answer.

Someone else, give it a shot. Send a letter to the president. 

I'm afraid that since this is a commercial product, maybe someone with cattle should write a letter specifically for leached chemicals.

Just because something is NSF approved doesn't mean it doesn't contain or leach BPA or other pthalates.  There are plenty of "food grade" at least in the US products that DO leach those things so lets be clear that the NSF and FDA stamps just cost the companies more money but doesn't guarantee those products are free of things that can leach out and cause hormonal havoc in children and others with lots of exposure.

So the fact that the stock tanks don't have FDA or NSF approvals doesn't necessarily mean they have anything bad in them, just means that the company didn't pay the extra money to get them certified or approved (which they would then pass on to the consumers if they did.)

Now my understanding was that their structural foam is HDPE plastic which is generally of the safest plastics available but since they didn't get the extra approvals or certifications we don't know for absolute certain if there are any additives or colors that are "non" approved.

So, for our own personal use, at some point in time we have to make a decision for ourselves about what we will use.  There are potable water grade vinyl liners out there with NSF and FDA approval that will leach plasticizers, so lets decide for ourselves with what info we can find, I don't necessarily trust the NSF and FDA approvals as being the "be all, end all" of safety standards and not having those approvals doesn't necessarily equate to "unsafe" either.

Since someone just asserted on one of my youtube videos (setting up stock tanks) that these are "known" to leach chemicals, I went looking. So fun to see one of the four links my google search provided leads me back here.

If you have tanks and wish to ensure they are safe for potable water, you can seal them with a product NSF approved for potable water. Two such products are ThoroSeal Waterproof Coating ® and Waterplug ®.

A second value of such coatings would be that they're probably not black, like the standard Rubbermaid stock tanks.

Meg, any idea if either of those coatings would actually adhere well to the HDPE plastic of a stock tank?  I would fear that it would tend to scratch or flake off especially if used for a grow bed.

Again, the NSF and FDA don't consider some of the BPA or some of the other things we don't want in our food to be that BAD so there are plenty of "certified" or "approved" products that DO leach these things.  Much of our canned food we can buy at the grocery store is in cans lined with a plastic coating that DOES leach BPA!!!!!! 

So, just because the stock tanks don't have certification, does not mean that they do or do not leach or have BPA in them since it is quite possible that even if they DID have some sort of NSF potable water of food contact certification, they could still leach BPA.  And on the flip side, just because they DON'T carry the certification, doesn't have any bearing on things like BPA.

I agree with Robert in that if they are leaching BPA I don't want to be using them for my livestock either.

Now alot of those plasticizers are actually used to make plastics more supple or flexible or provide UV protection or whatever so I don't necessarily expect them to be in a rigid structural foam.  But, since rubbermaid doesn't want the certification, it might be as simple as they don't want to pay extra for it and the testing involved Or they may sometimes change their forumulations or use things in the process or in the plant that would stop them from getting the certification.  It is really hard to know how safe or dangerous any of those things might actually be.

I do know of people who used rubbermaid stock tanks in a system that was only using materials that could be organically certified.  That is not the same as "food grade" but are you certain that your pump is "food grade"  What about the jacket on the power cord?  What about the gasket on your bulkhead fitting?  What about your Uniseal (no the uniseals are not food grade certified and neither is the Duraskrim Liner.) 

Wait a minute, is your coir or peat or gravel or clay balls certified food grade? NO.  Neither is soil or dirt that grows traditional food.

The point is to try to choose materials that will impart the least amount of bad stuff to our food while still letting the good stuff work.

I bet if you roughed up the interior surface of your HDPE tank the Thoroseal stuff would adhere pretty well.

I'm just getting beat up over on one of my videos from two years ago by nosuca99 stating you (TCLynx) are merely stating opinion and that Murray and Gary are adamant that one ought use food-safe materials, and that they may have said the stock tanks leach (no citation) and that fiberglass is best.

As for me, I'm much more concerned that global food safety standards prohibit the practice of growing food in the presence of manure (the global standards that all major food manufacturers are relying on for the safety of ingredients in their food products) and we don't yet have scientific consensus sufficient to convince folks that using water in which fish swim to irrigate our aquaponic crops isn't the same as "growing in the presence of manure."

Separately, there are ecosystems that have been in existence for over 200 million years (google search on Churince) that are being sucked dry by "traditional" agriculture to grow things like tomatoes.

I'm off-topic, I know. But it's frustrating having someone snipe without providing references, particularly in light of the issues you mention.

I agree.  And to go off topic with you

My opinion is that everyone must form their own opinion.

Now food-safe materials is not necessarily the same as insisting that all materials be "food contact" certified by NSF or be made of FDA compliant materials.  And heck, with the aquaponics we really must go a step beyond since it has to also be fish and bacteria safe too.

Sorry to hear that you have a troll beating you up over on YouTube about it.

I too think it is kinda crazy to have GAP and GHP auditors deciding that having fish in an aquaponics system is equivalent to spreading fresh manure on crops when there are agricultural fields that spray plants with raw river water (that by the way has fish and therefore fish waste in it as well as perhaps having dead animals, manure run off, perhaps even human sewage runoff) and that they consider fine.  But the idea of using potable source water and fish being fed pellet fish food and being careful not to contaminate the system with any likely pathogen sources should cause anyone to fail an audit.

Heck, I believe I read some where (the rule sheet for some auditor or another) that if the growing area or processing area, HAS or HAS EVER HAD human or animal waste in it, that it is an automatic FAIL.  But they fail to define "ANIMAL"  Does this mean if your lettuce growing operation has ever had a caterpillar (and therefore caterpillar poo) in it that you are automatically failed from ever passing the audit ever again?  Does this mean that any and every organic farm that has earthworms in their soils is automatically failed from ever passing an audit.

I personally have no intention of ever even trying for a certification that would require me to lie and say there are NO living creatures ever present in my growing operation.  The whole point of Aquaponics and organic growing is that IT IS a Living system.

Sigh  AND the fact that most of the panic and knee jerk new regulations that try to stop things like aquaponics because there is fish poo in it, doesn't address the actual problem or where most of the food borne pathogen outbreaks come from, (which is most often in the processing and wash/handling water in large scale industrial operations.)

Hello all!

I just purchased a 300 Gal Rubbermaid tank then saw this forum with the concern whether or not they are food safe, which sent me doing some fast research. 

I found something you (those concerned) may be interested in; a forum for turtle owners that are talking about the same topic: http://www.turtleforum.com/forum/upload/index.php?showtopic=143471 

One of their members has made "The Ultimate List of Stock Tanks" which is maintained by their group- pretty impressive. If you read through their posts, their research seems to indicate that the black  Rubbermaid tanks are food safe. Personally I'm going to go with the tank. My 35 year old horse drank out of one and lived a pretty long life, not dying of toxicity (a dog ran him down in the snow and he broke his hip- had to be put down.)  

the rubbermaid stock tanks do not have any certifications saying the are food safe so no one is ever going to be able to give you a certified answer that they are food safe.

They are certainly safe enough for livestock water and feed and I can tell you they are definitely fish safe. 

I have now found that the 100 gallon stock tanks when used as grow beds with heavy gravel doing flood and drain, some do start to crack near the bottom after about 4 years or so of use.  I haven't had any with the light weight media start to crack yet but I have had two that had the heavy brown river rock develop cracks.  Sigh.....

I wonder if the cracking would have been prevented if the bottom 1/4-1/3 of the tank had been buried in supporting media. Say if the tank in question had had a box build around it and filled with sand or rock, to equalize the stresses on the material.

It won't save any tanks already split, but might save tanks an the way to splitting... And even if the box materials degrade (I know you have crazy aggressive termites down there), it could be rebuilt relatively easily without subjecting the grow bed itself to much time without that extra bit of support.

The tendency for flood and drain media to manage to bulge out all sorts of containers means that it can be really hard to find a rigid plastic bed that isn't going to experience problems in the long run.

I think perhaps the "box of rocks" idea there may possibly help (though I'm not sure it would guarantee it and maybe not for the reasons we would expect.)  It would protect the black plastic bed from sun.

As noted the beds I have had crack are filled with the heavier somewhat smooth gravel, they are flood and drain, and the location that cracked is near the bottom just inside of where the "feet" are where it kinda curves in to the waste at the middle.  They cracked on the WEST facing side.  I patched one temporarily with that two part epoxi water weld stuff but it started leaking again later and developed another crack so I removed that one from service as a media bed.  It is now acting as a worm bin mote with only a few inches of water in it.