New Bluegill System

[Special Ed]

So I am in the process of building my first AP system.  Ive got a 55 gallon FT with a 55 gallon sump, and two 35 gallon grow beds, planning on a CHIFT PIST setup.  I live in northern Nevada where it gets below zero during the winter, and 95+ in the summer so I decided to build an indoor system in my basement.  The wife isn't too thrilled, but she has allowed me to try this small setup.  I have a few questions for more experienced aquaponists (is that the word?) regarding my fledgling system.

First of all, because tilapia are illegal to grow without permits in Nevada, I have decided to go with bluegill.  I loved fishing for bluegill growing up in Minnesota, and love eating them, so it seemed to make sense.  So how many bluegill fingerlings should I purchase for my small system?  

What kind of water conditions do bluegill prefer?  pH?  Temp?  etc.?  

And what kind of veggies/herbs can I grow with similar water conditions? (remember I have a very small indoor setup so large plants like tomatoes or squash are probably out of the question, unfortunately because those are my favorite to grow!)

Can I grow Duckweed and/or goldfish in my sump as extra food for my Blues?

Any other concerns anyone has about my extremely small and amateur setup in my basement?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and as my system is still under construction, changes can still be made very easily!

Mucho thanks for the answers and advice!

[Leo White Bear]

Ed-

  You have a 110 gallon system. with both FT which is a decent set up, the basement will keep the water cool.  The biggest challange is you don't have enough grow bed area to accomodate this much water.  A 1:1 ratio is best so I would tie in another 35 gallon grow bed.  This still may not be enough because you don't fill the totes up all the way to the top with rock.  At any rate with the 110-gallons of water the consensis is 1-pound of mature fish per 5-7gallons of water.  To be safe in your application, I would tend toward the 5-pounds to 7-gallons ratio.

  I like to tell people just starting out that they are not gardeners, they are not aquaculturalists, they are bacterialogists.  You need the proper pH, ammonia content and warmth to grow healthy bacteria.  The bacteria are the life force driving the aquaponic system, without them the fish will eventually die, with out them the plants will suffer and eventually die from lack of nutrients..

  With a balanced system, the bacteria will convert the ammonia into Nitrites and Nitrates.  Nitrites are toxic to fish almost to the same degree as the ammonia.  With the conversion of ammonia to nitrites. the secondary bacteria converts the nitrites to nitrates which are not as toxic and the plants take up the nitrates and hence forth return cleaner water to the fish, keeping the system in balance.

Also-- BE PATIENT, these are NOT fast growing bacteria.  Unless you can get a disease free fish aquarium filter from a friend or from the pet store, or- some rocks from a clean water river or pond, or-purchase some bacteria from one of the aquaponic sources you will have to wait for the bacteria to colonize your media which can take up to a couple of months.

 

Another way is to do like Murry Hallum recommends and get some Maxi-crop and put this in the FT and Sump, then plant your plants.  Wait two weeks and then add your fish.  The water will turn almost black but the plants will eventually take up the nutrients in the Maxi-crop and eventually clear the water (somewhat).  I tried this method and it seemed that the system grew along with the fish and plants.  This does work and it will give you a head start with growing your plants.

 

The hight of grow area will dictate what plants you can grow in your system.  This will measure approximatly 4-feet.  This is measured between the Grow Media and the Lights you will need.  Select the plants accordingly.  Herbs, cherry tomatoes (may work), kale, Swiss chard, lettuces, squash, watermelons (vining plants), cucumbers, peas, beans (no need to trellis these, let them hang over the sides) and so on. 

  Up right plants like corn, possiblt okra, may not be the best plants for an indoor basement system, you need to make a judgment call on these.

 

Above all, have fun, I love this hobby so much I quite soil gardening all together, plus I'm getting up there in age, maybe that has a lot to do with it, don't know.  Enjoy your new hobby, provide the wife with a fantastic salad and fish dinner and maybe she'll come over and change her mind.

[Special Ed]

Thanks for the info Leo!  

I guess I hadn't considered the sump as being included in the total gallons, but now that you mention it, it totally makes sense that it should.  That brings up another question I've been wondering about:  Because I am pumping out of the sump, and keeping water level constant in my FT, the water level will be fluctuating a lot in the sump.  Is a sump the same size as the FT appropriate?  Should it be larger than the FT to accommodate potential large swings in water flowing to the sump if my growbeds empty at the same time?  Am I over-thinking this?  

Your advice to be patient isn't falling on deaf ears.  I was planning to follow the Murry Hallam cycling technique that you mention, that is also detailed in Sylvia's book.  Will this work if I plan to broadcast seeds into my beds?  Not sure if the seedlings will be taking up enough nutrients to make this a viable technique for cycling.  Perhaps I should just add some ammonia and let the bacteria show up naturally and wait weeks/months before adding fish?  

By the way, I double checked, and I had apparently done the conversion from liters to gallons wrong before...my grow beds are actually 25 gallons, not 35.  So I should add at least 2 more beds to my system, and stock at a much lower density.  Right?  

How does this sound...  55 gallon FT with constant water level.  55 gallon sump.  4, 25 gallon growbeds.  20 bluegill fingerlings, assuming a few will not make it due to transportation stress.

Per you advice and the recommendations in Sylvia's book, I don't plan to add the fish until the bacteria are strong and ready to handle the load.

Thanks again for your comments!  

[Leo White Bear]

Ed-

What I seem to be reading here is that you are thinking of pumping the water from the sump into your FT.  If this is so then you are in essence filling your grow beds with the equivilent of the water from one 55-gallon water tank.  Figuring that the media in your GBs equils 1-foot deep by the measurements of the tote at this level, you may be safe.  I say this because I don't know the configurazation of your totes, are they square, rectangle or round, don't know but this may affect the volume of media you use. 

  The media takes up in volume between 50 - 60 percent of the GB tote. Measure the ammount of water in the totes at 1-foot.  If it takes say, 8-gallons of water to fill your tote to 1-foot, the media will displace 50 - 60 percent of this amount of water.  You may be safe increasing the amount of GB to four, without depleating the amount of water in your sump of 55-gallons to where you risk burning out your pump.  This should work fine because the volume of your tote is rated at the total volume.  You will not be filling the tote to the top.  At most you will fill the totes 3/4 full so your actual volume would be between 15 - 20-gallons.  With the water only rising up 10-inches so you have a 2-inch dry zone on top you can decrease this amount of water to 30 - 45-gallons still leaving 10-20 gallons left.  You must to the volume test first to be sure.

 

If you feel that the Hallum type of cycling would not work for you then by all means, use the ammonia.  Add enough ammonia only to raise the ppm of the water to 3ppm.  This means only a capful.  Don't over do the ammoina thinking more is better, this can actually hinder the growth of the bacteria.  test daily for nitrites ammonia and nitrates.  This will take time but as soon as you add more ammonia and find the nitrites/ammonia levels drop to zero in 24-hours and see good nitrat development then you can start to add plants and fish, Not Before.  This takes time as the bacteria are slow growing.

 

Sounds like you are well on your way to becomming an aquaponisist, enjoy your system and let us know how thinga are going.

[Special Ed]

Hey Leo,

I can't tell you how appreciative I am for your comments and advice.  You definitely are helping me to think more critically about my setup and I know it will help me be more successful.  Thanks!!  

I thought it may help to give you a quick sketch of my design so that you can dissect it and more effectively critique it (if you don't mind!?)

                                             PICTURE IS IN PLAN VIEW

OK, hopefully that helps to envision it a bit better.  Since it is not constructed yet, taking pictures doesn't seem to make sense.  To be clear, there is a pipe in the side of the FT that will allow the water to flow to the sump tank whenever the water level in the FT meets or exceeds that level.  (The FT is about 2" above the sump tank).  The pump is in the sump tank and will be run constantly.  It flows up to the 4 grow beds, where auto-siphons will allow the water to flow back to the fish tank and so on.  Hopefully I have explained this well enough!

So if I stock my tank as if I only had 55 gallons, does it really matter how large my sump is?  Even if I had 1000 gallons, if the fish are only producing the same amount of waste as a fully stocked 55 gallon tank, I only need grow beds to support those 55 gallons........right????   My brain hurts.

[Leo White Bear]

Ed-

  Looks like a good set up - let's break this down.  You have 4 grow beds at 25-gallons each.  These will hold at the most 60% of their total volume.  At a medium height of 12-inches and a fill volume of 10-inches you will be using approximatly 5-gallons of water (just saying).  You, in theroy will only deplete your 55-gallon sump by 20% or 20-gallons of water used.

  The grow beds drain into the FT, these 20-gallons but, with the over flow pipe will not overflow onto the floor.  This is a pretty good set up as long as you do not allow the sump to go dry you'll be golden.

  The GBs will not all be draining at the same time (in theroy,as at times my GBs do drain simultainously) but you have enough volume to compensate for this.

  Looke good, can't wait to see some pics of the build.  Do take pics as these help in troubleshooting any difficulties that may arise.  Now, what type of lighting are you planning to use?  I have used flouresence light over my system and it seems to work out pretty well.  I use Daylight tubes instead of the more expensive grow lite product.  I hope you do well and send out pics when the time comes.

[Special Ed]

I never thought about the actual amount of water in each bed being so much lower than the total volume of the tote.  That totally makes sense though.  So I guess I have no need to be worry about my sump being too small.  

Im happy that you think my design will  work, my fingers are crossed!   I will take some pics for sure when it actually starts taking shape.

I have a few fluorescent lights that I used for seedlings before putting them in my dirt garden.  I guess I was just planning to use those for my AP setup.  What are daylight tubes?  Im not sure what I have...they say 6500k on them.  Not sure what that refers to.  They seemed to do fine for the seedlings I grew last year.

[Leo White Bear]

Daylight tubes are a designation given to tubes that are used in office buildings.  These tubes are suppose to be as close to outdoor lighting.  The 6500k lumens do very well for plants indoors, even though the plants do have a tendance to get a bit "leggy" they still do fine.  Just use the ones that you have, for now, this is a learning experience and later, if you have the time and money, change over to growlights.

  Keep up the good work, you and your wife will enjoy the "fruits" of your labor.  Keep me informed and if you have more questions or are a bit unsure of something, please ask, we're all here to help.